# Building IP in web 3 - with Pudgy Penguins

By [Nylz](https://paragraph.com/@nylz) · 2024-02-11

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[**Navigating the Iceberg of Innovation: Building IP with Pudgy Penguins**](https://twitter.com/i/spaces/1nAKEanLjLoKL?s=20)

Embark on an enlightening journey into the world of intellectual property with the charming Pudgy Penguins.

This transcript unveils how the Pudgy Penguins community is pioneering the art of IP creation in the Web3 space.

Discover the strategies and insights behind building a brand that resonates emotionally with its audience, leveraging user-generated content, and fostering a supportive and creative community.

From the nuances of digital branding to the future of Web3 gaming, this conversation offers a deep dive into the world where creativity meets technology, led by the whimsical Pudgy Penguins.

**TRANSCRIPT**

Legendary 00:02:16 G m g m, everyone. We are back with a new track with a new space to for this week. We got the hustle with us today. Very, very excited for today's show to be talking about what the Pudgy penguins are cooking. Still waiting for a few people to join. All of my co host karma is rugging a bit. She has issues with adjoining the spaces. Spaces has been giving us a bit of trouble today, noticed it earlier, on the modern market as well.

Legendary 00:02:48 Some people were joking in that spaces might be built on Solana judging by how it is done, but that's maybe not to go that way. And let's welcome the people who we already have on stage. Shiv How are you doing? Welcome to the stage, my man. We haven't spoken in quite a while, actually.

SHIV 00:03:11 Hey. How are you guys doing? I'm excited to be back on the the CCX space is absolutely crushing it. I think last week you guys had to pick someone keeps on, and that was a fantastic space. I decided to bring out the Huddl and also pudgy gaming as well to talk about the different things that we're doing, building the IP. With the pudgies, and, yeah, I can't wait to get into it. And a few of us are sort of trickling in, so excited.

Legendary 00:03:37 Absolutely. Yeah. Raj, welcome to the stage. How have you been my man?

Raj 00:03:42 I've been good. It's been, it's been a very, very busy February. NFT Paris is creeping up. So, honestly, everything other than NFT Paris has just, like, been super distracting to me, but, Yeah. I'm doing good. It's nice to be here.

Legendary 00:03:58 Nice. Didn't know if you're going to NFT Paris as well. We're definitely gonna see each other there. That PA welcome to the stage. I also haven't seen you in quite a while in spaces, at least in the spaces that I've been hosting. How have you been?

ZP 00:04:11 Been good. It has been a while. GMGM. I'm sad that I've been missing some morning markets and everything. I roll work has been very busy with the football season, but excited for that to come to the closest weekend and kinda trying to get back into the web 3 world, but very happy to be here. See Carmen just joined, so I'll take it back to you guys.

Legendary 00:04:31 Absolutely. Thank you so much for being with us. Lorenzo, welcome to the stage as well. For joining us today. How are you doing?

Lorenzo 🐧 00:04:39 Doing great. Just another day in Pudgy World.

Legendary 00:04:42 Just another day in Pudgy World. Love to hear that. Karma, checking in with you. Is everything working? Is x letting you up on stage?

Karma 00:04:50 Yes. The queen of getting ragged has arrived. Hello everybody. Lovely to see so many Pajep penguins on stage. We still have people streaming in, but I'm just genuinely excited for the chats today and would love to pick your brains huddle on so many different topics, you know, starting from IP building all the way to onboarding and gaming. Like, there's just so many topics we can jump into today.

Legendary 00:05:20 Absolutely. And let's let's let's start with it. As you said, we have a lot to cover. You mentioned IP. Shive mentioned IP in in his interest. Well, maybe start with IP then and get straight into it. Pudgy, so definitely building one of the strongest IPs in the web 3 space. And the team has made a very, very big bet on the toy segment. Shive, you obviously also did a lot of video content around the toys. Was it was it clear for the team that this is a vertical that they want to get in from the get go, like, from your conversations with with the team with Luca. Was it something?

Legendary 00:05:56 Luca had in mind ever since he acquired the brand that this is the vertical they wanted out to build. And how has, you know, this this journey progressed and evolved from your perspective?

SHIV 00:06:08 Yeah. For sure. I think this question is actually better for Lorenzo because the whole licensing from the community was his idea. Soon after they acquired the pudgy spot, a lot to give my perspective. I think it was a fantastic vertical. And the reason why I say that is The final system from normies getting into web 3, there's too much friction. There's too much friction when it comes to looking at Okay. I need to set up a mess. I need to send crypto. There's so many different fishing points where oftentimes it pushes people away to even consider looking at NFTs. And if the word NFTs and Web3 already pushes people away, we'll have to focus on.

SHIV 00:06:48 But when you look at the toys, everyone loves the toys. You fall in love the character. You fall in love with the penguin through the social media, and the toys have a QR code into Pudgy world. Which is also utilizing the tech behind the scenes and actually onboarding people. And it's those touch points that actually makes things more frictionless That makes sense when it comes to getting people on board into this space. But of course, I'd love to hear Lorenzo answer this question because this was all his idea from the job.

Legendary 00:07:20 Yeah. Absolutely. Then let's get straight to you Lorenzo.

Lorenzo 🐧 00:07:23 Yeah. So when we purchased Pudgy, there was only really 2 thesis for actually making that purchase. We got a lot of questions around, like, how do you value that? Like, Why are you buying that project? And, the first was community. You know, the community was super strong. They had kind of pulled through know, through coal and, you know, obviously, kind of the market had taken a turn for worse at that point, but, you know, the project was still holding, I think, point 7, point eight eight floor. And you know, the vibes in the community were a little scattered, but everyone was still there and wanted to be around the penguin. And so that was really amazing.

Lorenzo 🐧 00:08:03 And the second thesis We thought it was the only actual PFP project, that could reach mass adoption, and people could resonate with outside of our small crypto sphere. And, you know, from that, we wanted holders to be able to build with our brand. And so that's kinda where the IP licensing thing came in. We wanted, you know, to change this traditional consumer model, which is you know, through IP and and basically every other industry into a participant model. And, the only way to do people along with the journey.

Lorenzo 🐧 00:08:38 And so, you know, we implemented inner Igloo's where we got, you know, regular feedback from the community on the different things that we're doing and then ultimately allowing them to participate in when the brand goes to market, which is through licensing and seeing your toys on the shelves of the largest retailers in the world. And so, yeah, really excited. And I think it's been a blessing thus far, and But, yeah, the biggest thing was IP and community when we started this thing.

Legendary 00:09:07 Those are 2 very, very strong thesis to have and build on. What gave you that very strong conviction on your second thesis that this is the IP to build on. This is the IP that is compatible with reaching a mass market.

Lorenzo 🐧 00:09:22 It was kinda purely based on the cuteness and that we all liked it. So it was actually all of our first PFPs. It was Lucas first. It was my first, first one we ever purchased. And it's because when we looked at kind of a market, when you looked at, like, apes, when you looked at punks, when you looked at penguins, that was the narrative really early on, kind of when penguins launched. And, you know, when you actually take a deep dive into those PFPs and the meetings behind them, you know, punks is very much on the art side. It is the OG.

Lorenzo 🐧 00:09:56 Will kind of always have that stamp in time, but, you know, can the mass market really resonate with a pixelated image of, you know, different characters, you know, we felt not, but it is an amazing art piece and something, you know, that is really legendary in the blockchain space. On the eight side of things, you know, it wasn't as friendly of a connotation. And some of the traits weren't as friendly as we thought needed to be in order to kind of galvanize a really large audience, you know, behind the PFP. And penguins are cute. You know, penguins resonate with a really large group of people.

Lorenzo 🐧 00:10:36 There's no group of people that, you know, I mean, why would you hate penguins? And I think through each generation, you're seeing, you know, different penguin IPs come up. You know, you got penguins from Madagascar. You've got Happy feet. You've got club penguin, and, you know, those are some of the most fun movies and things that families and kids actually resonate with. And so That was it wasn't a really well thought out thesis past that. You know, cute IPs are the largest IPs in the world. And so the fact that penguins were cute, the fact that, you know, there was familiarity from past penguin IPs with a general large audience were probably the 2. Biggest factors.

Legendary 00:11:16 I feel like that makes a lot of sense. And as you said, it's hard to take offense in a penguin. Right? It is a very family friendly animal slash IP to be building on. But a follow-up question, we we've seen many brands we've seen several founders in this space, kind of trying to copy the Pudgy playbook, to, you know, determine what makes the Pudgy playbook so successful And how do you basically go? Because we've been speaking a lot about brand building in the previous CTX spaces. How do you go from, like, building a brand to expanding and extending that into building an ecosystem?

Legendary 00:11:54 So building away from you know, strong community, strong IP, being trending on Instagram, on Giphy, to having a toy line, to be talking about gaming, and to have so many other things. Like, what is the process to scale from a brand to an ecosystem.

Lorenzo 🐧 00:12:10 Yeah. I think probably one of the biggest things is you have to understand what a brand actually is. You know, a brand is something that can have products and can have no product Right? It is something that is a little bit nebulous. And so when building an IP, it can be difficult to understand, like, what is your actual core product? Right? Like, what is the core product of Pudgy penguins?

Lorenzo 🐧 00:12:36 You know, some people might say it's toys, other might say it's gaming, you know, you might say that, you know, it's the content on Instagram, but ultimately, it's the likeness of the character and how that character resonates with a really large audience emotionally. And so that's a really difficult thing, to think about and to quantify And so, you know, the way my IPs are monetized is through secondary means traditionally. Right? Like, you're selling toys, you know, you might have a game. Right? Like, you might be doing all these other things, but, like, are you a toy company? Are you a gaming company? No.

Lorenzo 🐧 00:13:13 Like, those are means of monetization for your underlying product, which is like how you emotionally resonate and how many people you know, are interested in your brand. So, you know, transitioning away from community is an interesting framing. I think we're trying to build a much larger community because ultimately, you know, The best thing that's ever happened to us is that we had a core set of believers and people who resonated with our IP, and that has given us a really large advantage when going to market.

Lorenzo 🐧 00:13:47 You know, traditional IP takes anywhere between, you know, really 15 25 years to build to create that emotional connection with any subset of users. And so the fact that that was kind of built in through, you know, the NFT model and, you know, finance is slightly aligned between, you know, the builders and the people who are supporting and participating has given us, you know, an an immense advantage when actually going to market. And so we are just trying to increase the amount of people that have that, you know, really strong emotional connection to the brand and to the penguin.

Lorenzo 🐧 00:14:25 And so all of our funnel basically works to do that. And so it's different for a web 2 audience over web 3 audience because they are not financially aligned and, you know, in that mission from the start, but, you know, it starts top of the funnel with content and story and proliferation of the penguin itself. Right? Like, the goal is really to be the most popular penguin. When you hear penguin, you think pudgy penguins. You don't think penguin's a Madagascar, you don't think happy feet, you don't think club penguin, you think pudgy penguins. That is like really high level goal of where we wanna be. And so that's, you know, done through a couple different channels.

Lorenzo 🐧 00:15:04 The first is, you know, on Giphy, Next, we have Instagram content. You know, we're looking to integrate a lot more story on that side of things because, again, you want a deep emotional connection with people because that's when you're actually able to push people down the funnel and then those monetization channels become really interesting. After you've kind of gone through, like, the content distribution and the IP proliferation stage of things. You know, you're looking at, like, products that people can interact with. Right? Like, web 3 is a traditionally very digital world.

Lorenzo 🐧 00:15:36 I think it can be difficult for people to resonate with digital things, especially if they're not, you know, video games or movies or really, really well done video games and movies. I think, you know, often people it kinda comes in and out of their life. And it's something that doesn't really stick that great. And so we want it to have physical product. Right? This is something that you can touch every single day This is something that can be part of your life when you wake up, when you go to bed, right, like, when you're with your friends, you know, it's always in your mind, right, like, there's always a touch point for you there because you own it, right, and you're seeing it constantly because it's in your house.

Lorenzo 🐧 00:16:15 And so, again, just trying to create another deeper emotional connection through that process. And then you have, right, like, some of the digital things that we're doing, which is Pudgy World, which is really amazing. And I think will be the primary vertical where we actually tell the Pudgy penguin story and allow people to get a deep emotional connection with the brand. And then after that, you've got trickled down into the NFT communities themselves, right, like really core believers and people that wanna participate in the brand that have taken you know, that emotional connection, which usually stops at consuming in web 2, and they want to become a participant. Right? And so therefore, They buy a PFP. They engage in the aid in their igloo. Right?

Lorenzo 🐧 00:16:55 Like, they are now what I would maybe deem as, like, core community. But I think at all levels of that funnel, the goal of the IP brand is to create community, right, like, to create people who love your brand, who wanna be a part of your brand, because you don't like, your product is the character or whatever you're trying to proliferate. It is not the game. It is not, you know, the toys those are secondary means of monetization, and is not what you're actually trying to do.

Legendary 00:17:28 I love that very insightful answer, and I also loved how you put it. That pudgy is not a gaming company. It's not a toy company. And you also, you know, mentioned that the community has been a tremendous asset in building this this web 3 brand that obviously has the mass market reach, but it also puts you, like, in a very unique position because if you build a traditional web 2 IP, you don't have that core group of NFT holders that have that already, like, strong emotional connection. Those have sort of a financial connection, obviously, with with the collection, with the brand.

Legendary 00:18:04 And you mentioned that this has been a tremendous asset, and I think that the value of communities and where at least for, like, web 3 native participants is a very, very clear one. But on the flip side of that, what would you say is or some of the challenges that come with, you know, having having this core group of holders who are also like, you know, owners of of the PFPs apart from the, well, communication and expectation management. Which still is one admittedly one of the biggest challenges in this space that many founders, many teams are facing.

Legendary 00:18:39 But apart from that, what are some other challenges that you see with that with unique proposition of building a web 3 brand.

Lorenzo 🐧 00:18:49 Yeah. I think the biggest it all really comes down to leadership and vision and getting people aligned in, you know, that vision itself. It's, Again, it's kinda nebulous, but, you know, we've seen, you know, through blockchain and things, the rise of, like, you know, DAOs and other things and often that stuff kind of waivers and doesn't really get to the end goal and doesn't really complete the mission.

Lorenzo 🐧 00:19:18 Because there is kind of no head of the snake, and that doesn't mean that all ideas need to come from that, you know, particular person or that particular group, but that particular person and group needs to be responsible for executing. On those things. And I think a lot of times in web 3, people sometimes get caught up in in just the decentralization of it, and they think that you know, working with community means listening to every single idea and implementing every single idea. And, you know, that is the best way to win. You know, well, from what we found, we are like the muscle to the community's brain.

Lorenzo 🐧 00:19:57 Luca talks about this all the time, and it's really What that actually means is, like, we are there to filter and execute on the best ideas from this mask, you know, mind. Right? Like, how can we bring the best ideas to the surface? How can we lead this project? How can we share an actual vision that people can get aligned with? And they wanna to be a part of it, not because of what they are getting, but because of, you know, why they are participating. And so that's really the core thesis on, I think, what has been such a huge success with Pudgy is, you know, you really want that level of leadership. It's not just interacting with the community.

Lorenzo 🐧 00:20:37 I think that that's maybe where people get it wrong. It's not just providing updates and saying hello and being in the chat. It's a level of leadership and a level of vision that is really important to keeping everything aligned. And from that, I think it's been a monstrous success you know, when we look at, you know, the initiatives that we've done, whether it be Amazon or Walmart, like, we would not have that success without the community. Right?

Lorenzo 🐧 00:21:06 And so that really is the spark that allows you to grow much faster than a traditional IP is when everyone is aligned, when everyone believes in your mission and vision, they can support and you give them a path to actually support that vision, then they can go out and do so. And so we would not have had our Walmart deal if Amazon had not gone so well, and Amazon would not have gone so well. We did not have our amazing community behind us because launching a penguin brand on Amazon does not reach number 1 on the toy chart. The 1st week until it sells out. Right? Like, that stuff just doesn't happen.

Lorenzo 🐧 00:21:42 And that's because you know, often traditional IP brands don't have that level of involvement early on. And so it can be this really amazing tool and but if it's not curated properly and it's not led properly, then, you know, it it can become a reliability for some founders and something really unruly that is difficult to deal with, but we've had an amazing community. They always have our back. They're always here to support us. And we do the best that we can, you know, to lead with that vision and to take their best ideas and actually go and execute them.

Legendary 00:22:16 Very, very insightful answer. And I think you covered some very important points on on the leadership side of things, before I check-in with Karma to hear her thoughts. I do have one more follow-up question for you. We obviously have loads of, penguins lots of Huddl members in the audience, but we also have quite a few in the audience who are not at least judging by the PFP a Padji penguin or not part of the Huddl.

Legendary 00:22:41 And for those, I would like to ask because you mentioned, you know, how important it is to filter out the quality ideas not about, like, doing everything that the community says, but really getting the best ideas, to the foreground, getting them in the spotlight and executing on them how does that filtering process? How does this how does the communication with the community work to make sure that, those stakeholders are being heard that you can get access to the best ideas and eventually can can execute on them.

Lorenzo 🐧 00:23:10 Yeah. So something we started actually right after purchasing the project was something called inner igloo. And so this happens every 2 weeks. Luca, you know, gets on stage inside of our Discord. And, you know, anyone who owns a big pudgy or a little is, you know, is welcome on that stage. And he talks a little bit about updates. It's a little bit about things that we need to support with, you know, from the community side. And then he opens the floor for discussion questions and things that we have questions as a team about. Right? And so this is really where we're getting regular and honest feedback about the different initiatives and things that we're doing.

Lorenzo 🐧 00:23:49 And some of the greatest ideas that are implemented within our toys and other things that we're doing have come from, you know, members of the Huddl and the inner and the inner reclue, which is really, really amazing to see that those ideas actually get put in a practice and then are seen on the shelves of Walmart. You know, from there, it's really about taking those ideas and those things and bringing them kind of back to the team and then debating and discussing you know, what we think is the best path forward and is in line with our vision and in line with the mission and then ultimately going and executing on that stuff.

Lorenzo 🐧 00:24:21 But It really all starts with creating an open forum and then having a guided discussion around the things that you want to know about how to improve the brand. I think it's less around like, hey. What should we do at Pudgy penguins? Like, that would not be a very informative or helpful conversation for either the community or for us. Right? Like, there is no leadership in that. Right? There is no direction. And so But the best thing that you can do is interact with the people who are using your product, right, which is community.

Lorenzo 🐧 00:24:54 And you know, by interacting with them, by getting real market feedback, you're able to actually improve on the things that you're doing. And so I think this is another thing that's really important for startups is, like, getting active feedback from people. Right? Like, how many people in your market are you talking to about your product. Right? What metrics are you deciding to look at to determine the success of your product? And then how are those people? How is that people's feedback actually, you know, showing up against those metrics? And so that's really what inner Igloo is. Right?

Lorenzo 🐧 00:25:29 Inner Igloo is that feedback system on the things that we're working on, right, so that we can make better so that we can improve them for the people that care and love our brand. And so they have tons of ideas, and that's amazing. And, you know, it has been probably the most important thing for the brand thus far and how we're and it helps us iterate very quickly on the things that we're doing.

Karma 00:25:52 And I'm gonna, jump in right now because you've shared so many thoughts that I want to riff off of Lorenzo. And quite frankly, it's hard to even decide where to start. You shared a wealth of knowledge, but I'm going to move maybe in between IP and building in public. The main topics. So something I always remember obviously Luca sadly couldn't join us after all today, due to some, you know, locksmith and scheduling issues. However, what I always remember from all the interviews that he's ever given was that the genuine web3 brand is not just about integrating the blockchain.

Karma 00:26:30 It's actually about how you build and how you involve your initial, very engaged audience. It's not just about the technology of it, but it's generally a new paradigm shift where instead of people just being passive consumers, for, you know, some of the first times, they can actually actively contribute bottoms up from the very start of when the product is created. And I generally believe that Padji penguins excelled at that very open communication. And managing expectations of their holders, which we see time and time again in the space, is one of the most difficult things, right?

Karma 00:27:09 So much of the disappointment, so much of FUD, in this space very often originates from just bad communication or this mismanagement of expectations. And I think Padji pigments, you know, there's just so much we can, we can learn from you guys in that regard. And then another thought I wanted to share, and maybe Lorenzo, you have something to say, you know, back on this is I'm thinking back to the previous spaces on IP building we had, which was with Azuki.

Karma 00:27:38 And we talked to them, and he shared a very, very important thought how It's very, very soon your IP will be much more important than the actual products you've built because the barrier of entry to building, you know, games, building, animations, building, even anime, are being lowered so substantially by AI that it's no longer a mode to build something very big. Like, you know, the effort you have to put in is lowered day by day. So It's going to matter even more who are the actual characters in your product. Do people care about them?

Karma 00:28:15 Do people have that incredible, you know, emotional bond with them? So I guess, you know, do you have any thoughts about this? And you shared quite a few already, but is this AI and, you know, lowering the barriers of entry, and IP becoming the new mode? Is this something you talk a lot at budget penguins?

Lorenzo 🐧 00:28:36 Yeah. I think I we haven't integrated a ton of AI into the stuff that we're doing. I think that, you know, cost to get to market will naturally go down through, really, any industry that you're building in over time. And so I think that that is applicable. I think, you know, The really important thing to look at is, like, where are the trends of brands going? I think, you know, we'll see that the traditional brand dies ultimately and In 20 to 30 years, this is something that I've heard from the all in podcast. If you guys don't listen to that, I think you definitely should. Right? And it will be kind of be based around the influence Right? So, like, our penguin is our influencer.

Lorenzo 🐧 00:29:15 That's where we're creating our emotional attachment. That's ultimately where the value is derived because you know, our product, again, is not a gaming company. We are not, you know, a toy company. We are an IP company. Right? So that is measured on the proliferation that of the IP and how people understand it and how people want to be involved in it. And so that is really where the value is. Right? So, like, when you look at Mickey Mouse, what drives the Mickey Mouse sales? The love for the IP drives those sales. It's not that there is a cute mouse product. Right? Like, that is a mode of monetization.

Lorenzo 🐧 00:29:52 It's, you know, that their Disney's product is the IP. That's why they're super fierce around it legally, right, and wanting to protect it and make sure that, you know, It is upheld in the way that they believe it should be upheld because that is the actual underlying value. Is that emotional connection with that many people, and you can monetize that through a bunch of different ways. So I I would agree, like, you know, cost of creating something in any industry will just naturally go down, you know, over time. But, you know, being an IP company means actually being an IP company. And so you are not any particular product.

Lorenzo 🐧 00:30:31 And so that, that is always important to keep in mind.

Karma 00:30:34 Yeah. Absolutely. Fun thought, the IP on the early version of a Mickey Mouse, you know, one of the most iconic like the black one from the very, very early movies has actually expired recently. And we've immediately seen a surge of, you know, people integrating it into different indie games, different content.

Karma 00:30:56 But none of it ever really got that much traction because just the powerhouse of IP that's still associated, you know, with the main, with the main owner is is still strong, but certainly, you know, this building in public and open IP discussion is something that's very much, you know, being being, proliferated right now.

Lorenzo 🐧 00:31:16 Yeah. The building in public 1 is really interesting. I think, you know, it'll ultimately comes down to, like, creating a level of trust. Right? And so, like, being a good leader is is maintaining trust with the people around you and allowing them to participate as if they are on a team. And I think that that is probably also why you'll see expectations for other projects and things get out of control is because ultimately the community does not trust. Right? And, like, it's difficult to have trust with so many people in such a large group, but it's really important. Right?

Lorenzo 🐧 00:31:49 And so by being open, by being honest, right, like, you create that level of trust with any individual, and you just have to do that at a mass scale. And so it's think that that's probably one of the other biggest keys that we've learned is just be open and honest if things are taking a little bit longer, tell people, right, like, you know, ask for their feedback on things, create those emotional connections with them personally. It will certainly help guide you. You know, we treat the community Like, they are a team member. Right? Like, they are working within our organization, and they are, you know, helping us build, and we we wanna have that you know, level of transparency there.

Lorenzo 🐧 00:32:27 Now, obviously, can we share everything all the time? No. Right? Like, there has to be some mystery in NFT, but that doesn't mean that you're creating a lack of trust and a lack of communication.

Karma 00:32:40 Absolutely agree. And for us as well, it has been an amazing journey, you know, at ZTX, to build with the feedback from the community and implementing the ideas and from people that we are building for in essence. So amazing false Lorenzo. I will, however, now pivot towards more of creator questions in the UGC. And maybe I will give the mic back to you legendary. It will be, you know, very larping from me to try and pretend I'm, you know, the biggest creator here on stage.

Karma 00:33:12 So, you know, off to you, and I'm sure we can, we can have an amazing discussion about integrating content creators into the brand proliferation.

Legendary 00:33:21 Yeah. Absolutely. Thank you for the segue. One one final point, though, on what you just said, Lorenzo, I feel like this is such an important point that balance between being transparent, communicating transparently with your with your community, and also, like, keeping a bit of a mystery is something that a lot of projects seem to struggle to find the right balance with. Because being mysterious about a couple things doesn't mean that you suddenly become an intransparent brand and stop talking or communicating at all. With your people.

Legendary 00:33:56 And I feel like Pudgy has been doing an excellent job at at striking a very, very good balance. In this communication challenge. With that being said, as you just said, Karma, we we're heard a lot from the IP side of things from the building and public side of things, but I do also want to pivot. A bit into the perspective of individual creators, wanna go straight to UShip You were very early to make a bet on building your brand around that little pudgy have been tremendously successful in doing so. Walk me a bit through that, you know, journey and thought process from your perspective as a creator?

SHIV 00:34:35 Yeah. I mean, the thesis was pretty simple. Very early on being run into space for a very long time, seeing a lot of different PFP projects. One thing that they always told you was you have access to the IP rights of your PFP, but they just left out that. And one thing I realized with Pujis is and something that actually Lorenzo told me is what point of IP if you can't leverage it. And seeing the way that Pudges was building, attacking the IP vertical, you know, billions of impressions on Instagram, TikTok, Giphy, people fell in love with the Penguin very early on without knowing it's an NFT.

SHIV 00:35:15 People could look up my pudgy pen win without realizing it's an NFT, and they don't need to know it's an NFT, but they fall in love with character and how that makes them feel. And as my journey as a creator, someone who's making a personal brand, moving through the space, It made perfect sense to push my brand with a pudgy morseau with a little pudgy reason being, when I made my bets pretty early on last year, there wasn't many little pudges on the timeline.

SHIV 00:35:45 And I realized this was a vertical that was challenging, but I love a good challenge because it's very common to see big penguins around, alongside other, obviously, other NFT projects as well. Leading the charge where no one has really gone before was super exciting for something I was to take on pretty early on in my career. And I understood that building alongside this team was fantastic because there was clear cut communication. There was this element of building a public There was in Igloo's where, it's also a focus group where ideas come to life.

SHIV 00:36:20 And being inspired by the way that team the team built, it was a no brainer to join this process, and building alongside the little pudges, the penguin, Huddl web, ultimately the web 3 community has been super fruitful. You can take a scroll down on this Twitter space and see developed penguins that showed out no punches included. You know, this is, incredible to see because it's what that has gone in day in, day out. To really showcase the power of the penguin, and I wouldn't change it for anything.

SHIV 00:36:55 So It was very easy conviction to make very early on, just kind of comparing the way that the space was moving. People want transparency. People want clear cut communication. People want to know how things are going. I mean, what are you seeing now on the timeline? You know, you're seeing a lot of whales calling things out, especially communication. The way that this space is moving needs maturity, and seeing the way that punches are doing it very early on, it was a no brainer.

Legendary 00:37:28 Yeah. You you made some fantastic points. Absolutely agree on your thought process when it comes to to the communication. I also love how you specifically mentioned going, for the little pudgy because it was a vertical that wasn't very, very occupied back then. And, I mean, we've spoken about a couple of times in in real life as well. It was a very similar thought process for me. The reason why I wanted to become slots men, how you started to call me quite a while ago was because nobody was using the Azuki elemental animals as, as their IP So definitely resonate with that, very much.

Legendary 00:38:08 You also mentioned the important point of, you know, wanting to leverage the IP and that being a main asset of going for the Pudgy penguin is going for the little Pudgy. And we do have, a ton of creators in in the audience, aspiring creators in the audience, how do you go about leveraging, you know, the IP of your little pudgy in your content, that you're creating? What are some of the things that you learned along this way that you could, you know, pass on to to other creators?

SHIV 00:38:38 I think it's It's funny, right, because the way that I view my penguin is very much of myself. I think there's a penguin out there that anyone can relate to. And build something meaningful with it.

SHIV 00:38:51 And the way that I go around utilizing the IP My Penguin is it's pretty funny because I can go out and showcase the content I'm making to my web 2 friends, and they don't need to know anything about what is happening in web 3, but they could still enjoy what I'm doing and experience it, through the penguin, I think it's it's been pretty interesting because a lot of people have so many connotations when it comes to web 3, PFPs, and a lot of different things, but me going out doing what I love to do showcasing it through my penguin reduces so many different friction points that not only is it enjoyable for me, but it's enjoyable for the people outside our echo chambers.

SHIV 00:39:42 Now seeing where the growth is gonna be this year and the years coming, I think it's super exciting to, realize that the growth also comes in from my side as well because We're all collectively pushing this together, right? And the beauty about web 3 is there's so many varieties when it comes to content. And it all comes together because at the end of the day, we're all somewhat ambassadors for these projects.

SHIV 00:40:11 I mean, you rock in your elemental erocking my pudgy, everyone rocking their PFP, you know, it's it's growth that comes in and out in and out and I think the best way to describe it is everyone eats because if I'm growing, the IP is growing, Hojipem was just growing, and vice versa. So, yeah, I think what I realized is when I create something, everyone can enjoy regardless of, what the content is.

Legendary 00:40:43 Yeah. I I I think this is a fantastic concluding point and especially that you say you're it's about the content that I create. It's not about the tech that I use. It's not about the fact that this is, a PFP that I own. It's an NFT, etcetera, etcetera. But really about the content in itself. I think we did tackle the IP topic from quite quite a few angles and going back to the title of the spaces. It's still a gaming spaces, and we have a plethora to still cover on the gaming side of things. When it comes to Pudgy, so I'm gonna pass it, to you, Carmen, to set us up for the gaming side of things.

Karma 00:41:22 Absolutely. And, I've been looking forward all day to Grilling Raj on some questions, to be honest. And for for those of you in the audience, which, you know, may not be completely up to date or just just haven't really followed that much. The Pudgy World experience, which, you know, allows you to gamify some of the Penguin penguin interactions is in pre alpha. Now usually alpha is the very first testable version of a game, and, you know, it might crash and not have all the features on the software.

Karma 00:41:57 And then beta, just, you know, explaining some terms of a game is version with all the features that with bugs and possible crashes. So we have Pudgy world in pre alpha. Just before I joined the spaces, you know, I made sure to, like, time the time took me to, like, log in and check it out. It was under 2 minutes. Meaning that, you know, you guys are really optimizing for very quick very easy onboarding for anybody, not just people who are, you know, versed in juggling 52 or 52 wallets. So I'm just wondering, Raj, could you, you know, maybe explain to everybody in the audience? You know, what's the goal of Pudgy world?

Karma 00:42:36 How it relates to the IP you are you are working on and how this gamified aspect is going to grow? Because I know on our end, you know, in ZT X, we will also be integrating, social log in with email very soon into the new release of our beta. And we are looking forward to opening up this completely new and easy way of interacting. So, yeah, take it away.

ZTX 00:43:02 Yeah.

Raj 00:43:02 So I I I just wanna clarify. Pudgy Gaming is not affiliated with Pudgy World. We we're just a sub community that really, really enjoys gaming, but I'd love to, you know, give my input on it. I think with Pudgy World, it it's in a very unique situation to where the more the IP grows, the more and more people that are gonna be, you know, they're gonna be exposed to Pudgy penguins. And I think Pudgy World is really, really interesting.

Raj 00:43:31 And the fact that it has potential to do everything that, you know, when I was a kid and something that I really, really enjoyed was club penguin, webkins, all these, like, little immersive experiences with an IRL toy that I would buy. And I think Pudgy penguins has a really, really good opportunity to capitalize on something like that. And and it's it's crazy to see that that these brands like webkins or club penguin, they don't really exist too much anymore, and that experience for little kids is just it it's seemingly gone.

Raj 00:44:09 And I think Pudgy World is the perfect example of, you know, it's it's it's it helps get the kids in there, but it also just hits a bunch of different demographics. I I I always say this on spaces. I'm like Pudgy World has potential to just to hit the it you can do kids, parents, you know, people that enjoy NFTs, digital experiences, whatever it may be, and It wouldn't be crazy to see a million people, you know, daily, monthly, whatever it may be playing pudgy world in the future.

Karma 00:44:46 Yeah. Amazing. And thank you so much for clarifying the distinction. And, you know, I didn't mean to confuse it. I just, you know, wanted to really segue towards you as the, I would say resident gamer on the panel or one of them, for sure, Shiv, I saw you have your hands up. So, please jump into it.

SHIV 00:45:04 Of course. Can you just repeat your question again on, Pudgy World, Alma?

Karma 00:45:08 Yeah. Bay basically, what I'm trying to do is give the listeners an overview of what it is and where it's going. And, you know, how the game switch are accessible right now. You know, there is a PingoDage, there is chess. How do these small games, you know, integrate into the entire ecosystem? How do they help grow budgeting wins.

SHIV 00:45:30 Yeah. So I'm also gonna pin up a graphic to help, but understanding the funnel system that we've always wanted to create. Of course, 20222023 was very much hitting the IP vertical. And making sure people fall in love with the penguin, the brand, those emotions that are associated with the relatable content and the variety. And memeable stuff that comes from the penguin. Now when you buy these physical toys, how can we go from the physical toy into the digital collectibles? And it's about creating those seamless, funnel systems.

SHIV 00:46:07 That being you buy a digital toy, so you buy a toy, you scan the QR code. And like you said, comma, within 2 minutes, you can log in to Pudgy World. Now Pudgy World is meant to be an experience where people can come hang out and play alongside some of their favorite penguins. Now very early on when Amazon Amazon toy drop happened, Pudgy World was very much in its infancy stage, and it still is but we understand that we can't just have a toy and have a very lackluster game.

SHIV 00:46:41 So building out this game is gonna be super important this year, and I hope you guys are really looking forward to it because it, like, exactly what Raj said and just rallying that is it has a chance to retouch the heart of a lot of people coming from gamers, especially like us lobbying web 3 gamers as well, that we understand the importance of UGC content and how much that can also proliferate the vision. You see so many people posting about their toys and the experience with it and collectibles. That has a chance with project world as well.

SHIV 00:47:13 People going out there, having fun with their friends, doing cool stuff, having a an incredible experience without realizing, Hey, there's an underlying NFT involved. That's how you get 100 of 1000, if not millions of people into web 3. It's through these seem seamless interactions where you're going down the funnel system and you're just enjoying the experiences. Similar to when I was a kid, I'll go to the Disney store I'll buy club penguin part card packs, I'll go to club penguin and enter the code, and now I I can enjoy the game on a it'll be an incredible experience. It's a similar thing.

SHIV 00:47:53 You know, you love the characters. You love the way that it makes you feel. You love the penguin. And then it's it's an experience that elevates your connection to it. And it all falls underneath the brand and eventually You have die hard collectors that love it so much that they wanna collect these entities.

Karma 00:48:16 Yeah. Absolutely. And I agree that as a part of a funnel, I think it will end up being one of the most successful steps to really engaging the audience. And something I wanted to follow-up with is, you know, in the early stages of web3 gaming, when we were talking about web3 games, there was this very, very big push to on chain notification of everything. Unless everything you were doing was on chain, people just felt like you aren't really, truly building and web3.

Karma 00:48:48 Now I'm insanely happy to see this has changed significantly, you know, needs to be on chain. You can integrate in different ways to really optimize performance and the experience for the users. So just because, you know, for overview, like, how are you how is Pudgy World integrating web3 to really balance in between the user experience and the web3 component in it.

SHIV 00:49:22 Yeah. For sure. I mean, Carmo, you just signed up to Pudgy World, but one thing you didn't know is that it actually created a wallet in the background. It's using the tech without you realizing there was no point throughout that whole sign up process where you create signed contracts you read something you didn't understand. It was as simple as signing up with your email, and on the back end of things, it's utilizing the technology. Now as this builds out, more of that tech is gonna be used. Something that we had early on was you can trade the assets. You can trade the traits. For example, if I had a wizard hat in Pudgy world, I could sell that.

SHIV 00:50:02 I could trade that. But right now, it's on pause because there are better ways of implementing it. But just think of that as one case scenario, right? You can have true digital ownership of assets you own. Similar to you NFTs. I mean, it is an NFT at the end of the day and making sure that throughout the whole process, people don't realize that, Hey, it's actually an NFT. But you just sell it, you're just trading and selling assets. On top of that, we've always understood that you live and die by your community. You know, community is always gonna be your backbone when it comes to your product drops, your activations, and your experiences.

SHIV 00:50:40 And from licensing community penguins to integrating community penguins in Pudgy World. It's a way of galvanizing the community to rally behind this. I think cache, first of all, welcome to the Sage. You're the perfect example of this. Cache is actually in Pudgy world. Check out her banner. Right? So her character, her penguin is in Poggi World. Now you can imagine, right, as Poggi World continues to grow. More penguins are gonna be in Poggi World, right? Your favorite penguins, your favorite creator's influence as founders or leaders are gonna be in this game where people can go enjoy those experiences.

SHIV 00:51:20 And if you check the image I've pinned to the, board is, you know, from IP growth to community, you get the community into the funnel systems you've created, and those people are naturally going to go out there and represent that. They have an emotional attachment to it. So that is something that, you know, Pudgy World brings, utilizing the web 3 tech, And in my opinion, it's one of the finest ways to use this tech that doesn't have a lot of friction points.

Karma 00:51:49 Yeah. I feel like you've just, connected the 2 topics, the IP and the gaming in the most perfect way, just, you know, bringing up this example. It's absolutely incredible. And something I wanted to say is, you know, you've also outlined how smart accounts work.

Karma 00:52:06 So for those listening, you know, this ability of logging in with your socials to web3 applications, has not really been around for that long, this, like, abstracted accounts and smart accounts, abstract building the wallet for you on the back end when you log into application, even without previous knowledge of web3, that's something which is really unlocking completely new onboarding strategies this cycle. And there has been immense technological steps done on this in the past months and continuously improving on it. We're also right now integrating it for ZT X.

Karma 00:52:42 And quite frankly, it's a complete must have if you're truly thinking about why their audience the next steps, I'm sure for, you know, like, for many penguin games as well, there are still difficulties in, you know, how do you balance having your game on chain and paying, gas transactions for users. But also here, you know, we are seeing like many, many new developments, including, you know, we have very much faster blockchains now. We have cheaper transactions.

Karma 00:53:13 And these are immensely valuable because no player is going to come in, register with their penguin, and, you know, then learn how to trade on binance just to buy a little bit of dust to cover, cover the transactions. So really, really excited to see how all these applications will continue, you know, evolving and developing for the, quote, unquote, normal users. I know that at ZT X has genuinely been spending months now refining exactly this flow. So it's it's always good to compare notes I see you have your hand hand still up, so go for a shift.

SHIV 00:53:49 Oh, yeah. No. I just wanted to touch on that. You know, the the gas, fees is always gonna be a sticking point as well. So I know it, Albatrum, you know, gas is super optimized and it's actually incredible. And with Pudgy World, you might be wondering, well, how are you creating these wallets, you know, Fresh wallets, how are you guys trading assets around? Surely, that must cost a lot. Well, Pudgy World is partnered up with ZK sync. So we're using Polygon when it comes to creating these wallets and everything. And it's all gassless. I mean, it's all covered by ZK sync, so I just want to give a major shout out to them. Yeah, I mean, these L2s especially on need, definitely the way to go about it.

SHIV 00:54:27 I mean, oh, John is a fantastic example of this as well.

Legendary 00:54:34 Perfect. Shiva or Raj whoever wants to take it, I do have a follow-up question on that. Because we did touch on, you know, pudges being an IP company, 1st and foremost, with different verticals, with the toy line, with, the gaming side of things, how important do you guys think that it is to basically create touch points across those verticals. So for someone who has the first touch point with a pudgy brand via buying a toy, how do they get you know, a gentle nudge to learn about, hey. There's also a gaming world that I might want to experience. There's more to that IP than just the toy that I've bought.

SHIV 00:55:15 Rod, do you want to take this? I could balance on it.

Legendary 00:55:20 I think Raj just dropped down from the stage. I will try to bring him back up and you maybe can take in the meantime shift.

SHIV 00:55:27 Yeah. So your question is for someone who's looking in, right, while the points where they look into, hey, this is an NFT I just wanna get your question correct.

Legendary 00:55:36 Yeah. Not not necessarily NFT. Like, when, you know, say I have no clue about Pudgy penguins, I, you know, go to the toy store and see the toys that's my first touch point with the brand. How it basically does my my user journey progress and how do I learn about, hey. There is a gaming world to this. There's more than just the toy that I bought.

SHIV 00:55:54 Oh, this is, yeah, fantastic. So, you know, from from the graphic I pinned above, I think it definitely helps visualize this as I explain it, right? So for someone who for example, I walk into Walmart or Target or Smith, wherever it is, right? And I find a pudgy toy. So you're, you know, you're at the point of the funnel system where you're interacting with the licensed products. And you might recognize it. And on the packaging, it'll have the socials, it'll have the final systems created. You know, there is a QR code that leads to Pudgy World but also everything there is when it comes to the vertical of IP, right?

SHIV 00:56:34 You know, the Instagram is a massive factor, the TikTok, you know, the Facebook to all these other social media platforms that we're creating. And something that we're doubling down on in 2024 are these verticals, right? So you pick up a budget way for whatever reason it could be. Really like it, you might wanna buy it for your girlfriend or nephew, whoever it is. And on the packaging, the funnel systems are created, so you go and check out these socials. And you create a deeper bond with what it is.

SHIV 00:57:09 And those lead to going down the rabbit hole of okay, this is more than just a toy. It's it's a brand. It's a game. Oh, wait, there's a collector's experience with a digital assets such as the NFTs, but also collectibles as well. The limited edition drops. So there are different ways people can go through their journey I'm not gonna say which one people might go because I think that's the beauty of it, right? One person might just purely enjoy the toy, and that's completely fine. Someone might enjoy the social media platforms.

SHIV 00:57:43 And how about that, I think the beauty about it is you enjoy the IP the way you want it to be. I'm sure there are PoggiPenwen Collectors that might or might not care about the social media platforms, and that's completely fine. I think the beauty about a decentralized ecosystem because that's essentially what we're in, is you enjoy the experience the way you want it to. Not everyone's a gamer, and that's fine. Some people love, the IP vertical. Some people love the collector side of things. I think the beauty of it is you make the most out of it the way you want it to.

Legendary 00:58:19 Yeah. I think that's such a good point because on the one hand, you know, you've been describing how the funnel works for the overall IP. On the other hand, you are also acknowledging that different consumers, different brands, enjoyers have different first touch points in the user journey and the user experience, and they might not care about all the verticals and you didn't create the funnel in such a strict way that it only works if, you know, you go toy first, then gaming, then you learn about the social media just making things up right now. And then you see, oh, that's an NFT, and then you get interested in that. So, well, that might be a journey that works for someone.

Legendary 00:58:59 It doesn't have to be the journey for everyone. And I think that, flexibility is so so very important. Building on that, though, where do you think Shift will, you know, the gaming side of things for pudgy penguins be in 3 years? Like, will it become a very, very significant vertical? How do you think that this will, you know, evolve over the next few years?

SHIV 00:59:26 Of course, I think Pudgy World is a key focus of the funnel system from people buying these these toys and going down this digital journey, I think it's, it's something that's super important, something that we've recognized pretty early on from when we drop the toys that the importance of Pudgy World is pretty fast. And being someone who spends a lot of time in Webster gaming, seeing the way that these projects are building out games.

SHIV 00:59:57 It's super points on super important to understand that we make a game that is truly enjoyable that people can go out and create content with. I think the importance of UGC content is super important. You know, you have these celebrities, you have some of your favorite influences, Twitch streamers, etcetera, showcasing pudgy toys. I mean, we had Kais in that show a pudgy toy in stream. You've had a ton of different creators post about pudgy toys. You could imagine when Pudgy World drops in its full flash that people are going out, creating gameplay, doing cool stuff, That is all a final system that attracts people into what we're doing.

SHIV 01:00:37 And out of the hundreds of thousands to millions of people that have interest in that, even if even if a small people become die hard fans, that is still massive when it comes to people having their eyes on the NFTs. So at each touchpoint of, like, the funnel system, they're they're super important. Each one's super important. But yes, as a natural gamer myself, I'm really looking forward to the growth of Pudgy World, and I think this is also way a part like with Pudgy Gaming also plays into it because they're also cooking up things on their side.

SHIV 01:01:10 So keep an eye on that, but it's really I think when it comes to is how can we rally each point that we have, right? Each each part, each point of the funnel system is just as important. I wanna make sure that that message is valued. So, yeah.

Legendary 01:01:27 Yeah. Very much. I appreciate the answer. And I also like how you tackled, the your your insights from that UGC first perspective and would be very curious to hear from your side, Carmen, when it comes to ZTX what role that focus on UGC plays for you guys when it's about, you know, shipping new features, developing the ZTX ecosystem, what are your thoughts on that?

Karma 01:01:53 Yeah. I feel like the UGC discussion is kind of like blood, like, flowing through the web3 veins, right, and through a lot of, like, the gaming space veins. What I mean by that is basically, you know, none of the large social media networks create any content themselves. Like, we are all the product and content creators are who make the world go around in these spaces, to be honest. And I think any brand or project that doesn't support and create a space for content creation to thrive will have a very, very difficult, you know, difficult time staying relevant.

Karma 01:02:34 Now for ZDx specifically, you know, we are backed by Zepetto. Zepetto became big and we are speaking about 430,000,000 lifetime users, it only became big because it put UGC and content creation as their number one priority. So from the content creation tooling that's available in Zepetto all the way to, you know, entire programs for boosting creator content for, you know, like, discovering new creators that gets suggested to users. All of those initiatives are genuinely what makes this platform so lively and and such a hub of social interaction.

Karma 01:03:13 And ZTX is going to continue on and see it in the exact same way. I actually strongly believe that the metaverse we will see not not win, but be one of the most successful ones. And all types of gamified interactions that will become successful will be very, very heavily socialized. You know, you see it already in the space, like, you know, look up even, you know, examples like front tech, you know, it only blew up so big because there was such an insane social layer to it.

Karma 01:03:47 Look at Nifty Island, which, you know, launched with so many social and interactive ways for communities to connect. That's exactly the vertical that we want to, you know, scale with ZT X. In I'll buy, you know, in a slower fashion because we do we do have this immense, you know, legacy background to think about and onboard But I genuinely and truly believe that in this space without UGC and without empowering UGC, you are as good as dead in many cases. And and and I shift shift hand immediately shut up. So go for it, brother.

SHIV 01:04:27 I think Zepetto is, like, this DTX is just a fantastic example of UGC content. I mean, where you guys are. I mean, it's it's a testament to UGC content, right, and how much of an importance that is. Kind of just going back to this UGC as a whole, especially podgy world. Everything that we try to do our apologies is making sure that it's for the community. It's for the commune like, the community is aligned on everything we make sure we hit the mark and those expectations. Now when you think about Pudgy World, well, guess what?

SHIV 01:05:07 We really have a massive community of penguins that love the brand so much that they're gonna play this game post on social media and go out there. From 20,000. They'll pudges to 8000 Biggs. You already have a community galvanized when it comes to this game, and that's what games are looking for. A community to go out there, post about the content, play the game, and I ultimately enjoy it. Now When you have a brand that's already recognizable, hitting the IP vertical, people feel confident to go out and, you know, showcase this game. And people not being like, Hey, what is this? But recognize it, Hey, oh, that's Pudgy penguins.

SHIV 01:05:46 I've seen this stuff on Instagram. I've seen this stuff on TikTok. That they have a game, I'm gonna go and play this because it looks super fun, and the community's already going out there and showcasing the content. So it's all a final system that always comes down to the community. If the community enjoys it, the community's gonna go and represent it.

Legendary 01:06:09 Yeah. That's a fantastic, fantastic point that you've been raising shift. And I think we have had an excellent conversation so far. Those are gonna be respectful of everyone's time, both, everyone who's joining us in the audience as well as our speakers. So, I do want to slowly move to wrapping up the spaces, but before we do that, shift a final question for you, obviously, we touched on many things that pudges are cooking. If you had to pick a singular thing for 2024 that you are most excited about when it comes to pudgy penguins, what would that be?

SHIV 01:06:44 Oh, wow. You put me on the spot here. I think naturally with this conversation we've had today with gaming and being someone who plays a lot of games, I'm really looking forward to Pudgy World. Really looking forward to just jump in and have fun as a dope experience, but also, super grateful for the IRL experiences that I've had, you know, from the events that I had in 2023, even the little ones where, you know, legendary, we met on a yacht party in in London. I'm super grateful for that. I think events is something that really brings the community together.

SHIV 01:07:21 So I'm really looking forward to the events happening this year as well. And hopefully, I'll see you guys during NFT Paris. NFT Paris is gonna be a big one. The announcement's gonna come out soon, but it's really something that brings us together. And at the end of the day, we're humans with social creatures, and eye roll expenses and meetups go a very long way until they'll find those bonds. So that's what I'm really looking forward to.

Legendary 01:07:44 Man, I couldn't agree more with that. Really, really resonate with your take. Karma, I wanna throw it to you for the final words and to wrap us up for today's face.

Karma 01:07:54 Yeah, for everybody headed to NFT Paris, like, please, please, please do reach out. I'm insanely excited to meet everybody. And each one of you that will be there. It's always such a flurry of activity and, you know, legendary chef with Met in the past, but never in Paris. That just hits different.

SHIV 01:08:12 So excited for that for sure. Farmer has insane dance moves, and you would only witness it in Paris So stay tuned for that. That is a that's a reason to book your hotel and tickets to come over to see that happen.

Karma 01:08:27 Okay. Someone will be buying me drinks. Okay. Anyhow, ship Oh, okay. You put me on the spot here, but she was also an excellent dancer. Why are you coming yourself down? Before this devolves into a further discussion on who is better, I wanted to thank every single one of you for joining us today for and everybody in the Huddl for, you know, wanting to share their experiences, their building building journey, something I really value about these spaces is that we are talking very openly about the experiences in our building journey.

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*Originally published on [Nylz](https://paragraph.com/@nylz/building-ip-in-web-3-with-pudgy-penguins)*