参会者

大君：我叫大君。现在主要是在做加密分析，每天晚上的时候会给我的粉丝朋友们直播，给大家分析下行情，包括一级、二级，主要是主流的项目，和一些头部资本的投资，这些都是我的专业范围以内，然后包括今天的主题NFT。 我觉得今天的行情反弹完全是俄罗斯一小时结束战斗是很有关系的。我是觉得昨天都打完了，今天在怎么样应该也都也都也都会长得很好吧。

Mori：我是Treasure Land的partner, 然后我们是一个NFT marketplace，然后除了Market Place，现在我们还在做一个NFT的协议，等A轮的融资结束之后，我们会公布一些我们的资方，比如animoca、Circle之类也都会投资我们新做的这个NFT协议。 然后除了Treasure Land的partners之外，我跟兔兔还有vivi，嗯，然后还有一些小姐姐们做了一个Glow DAO，这个DAO是一个女性的DAO我们会写一些投研，一些NFT相关工具怎么使用、怎么用nansen去看你手里的NFT是不是蓝筹等教学文章，这样一个有教育意义、女性领导意义的这样一个DAO。

Vivi：我是耶鲁大学的PHD学生，然后我现在也在A &T实习，然后同时跟兔兔、Mori等一起做这个Glow DAO，我们并不是说只做女性相关的了，我们是比较关注女性项目，比如说女性利益，或者是女性主题，或者是有女性在的项目，我们都会比较关注，然后希望在他们早期如冷启动、项目路线设计之类的都会希望给他们有一些帮助。我们觉得目前加密世界当中男生还是居多，然后我们觉得这不是一个长久的趋势，就会像现实世界一样，一个好的行业一定是男生女生都会有很多的，然后就是男女特性的不同，男生和女生搭配一起做事效果更好，所以我们就希望就是帮助女性啊，希望大家如果有感兴趣的欢迎加入我们DAO。

Molly：哈喽啊我，我是，呃，magic，mentor的founding partner。还有就是，呃一个capital的。

Tutu ：我其实是比较晚加入币圈的。最早是大概19年的时候，只买一些现货，那学会了玩钱包，然后主要赚钱呢还是Games。非常机缘巧合我的微博，还有微信全部被封了，然后我就在推特上活跃，前2个月也是通过就是各种推特的活动认识的molly等很多志同道合小伙伴，很开心跟大家在这个Space可以见到，感谢49办了一个这样的活动，然后让本来币圈为数不多的小姐可以聚在一起。

NFT市场在近期的发展变化

Tutu ：第一个问题是在近期市场下跌的过程中，我们可以看到现在就是NT市场非常的火爆，1月份的数据来看，opensea的日交易量甚至有达到1亿美金，这个期间也出现了一些比较特别的玩法还有趋势，各位嘉宾觉得这个有些什么样的趋势或者玩法出现？另外、这个阶段NFT独立强势的行情是NFT市场的进步吗？

大君：比特币从54000跌下来以后，再上涨到69000的期间，就是NFT赛道的爆发，包括Gamefi项目，可以看到那些主流拉升的，基本上也是跟NFT相关。 从玩法来看，最开始的JPG，如Crypto Punk、无聊猿猴等都已经买不起了，然后到Loot相关项目，又到诸如Sand、Mana这样的土地拍卖玩法，这期间主要是炒作性质更多。再到后面的Gamefi，以AXS为首的Gamefi项目，包括FLOW、Alice等，都是在那段时间价格都是在慢慢上上涨的一个过程中。 NFT在不断演变的一个过程中，从最开始非常单一的JPG，到Loot的文字类，再到土地拍卖、Gamefi，玩法已经越来越多样。包括到演变到现在的一些空投玩法，比如说你最开始要参加一个项目方的一个空投，那他就是以很小的价格甚至免费去mint。比如说最近非常火的Galaxy。 NFT流动性的提升也可以看得到。如今很多项目都采用了NFT质押挖矿这个机制。我认为在整个过程中，它都是在逐渐从非常简单的单一模块到现在的金融模式的一个转换，已经是非常大的进步了。

Mori：最近觉得就是这世界挺神奇的，很多独立创作者的NFT被一些明星转发，我觉得这事情对于他们来说挺神奇。 对于来说builder来说，我觉的NFT在减少交易摩擦层面进步很多，不管是从技术方面还是协议方面，衍生的项目也非常多。比如说erc721、erc115就是协议方面来减少我们交易上的手续费，小地板的工具、版税这个技术部分也有很大的进展。 然后激励层也有进步，比如说Looksrare，就是传统的web 2的交易模式上添加了token来激励他的用户，然后有一个community marketplace的激励让更多人能参与到这个市场，并且从这个市场里获利。我觉得技术积累和代币激励是2个在NFT上最近的趋势吧。 第三点就是我刚才说的各种的对NFT相关的应用，比如说扫地板工具，然后一些数据方面的工具，像nansen等，还有协议层或者是ceramic等，各种meta data多了之后，数据分析方面最近也出现了很多这些数据层上的应用。 第四点是在一级市场也产生了很多跟NFT相关的项目在孵化，比如说前两天Animoca等领投的一个项目，是跟一个传统电商团队合作，但跟NFT结合之后，A轮融资拿到了1000万美金。我认为在未来的趋势里，他们可以获得的机会会远大于在Web 2中的机会。

Tutu：我们发现整个NFT市场以Opensea为基础，还是偏散户为主，机构基本上还没有怎么进来抢这个饭碗吧。出来了很多挑战者，包括最早的SOS空投、DAO，然后再后面的Looksrare，本身团队也非常优秀，也拉了很多kol过来给他站台，然后也出现了X2Y2，这2天整体币价表现不是特别好，因为它有一点矿币的属性，但是使用体验确实非常好，我作为一个用户觉得整体的使用体验都要比Opensea要好。 我非常看好整个NFT大方向，因为不管出各种各样的玩法，NFT市场其实跟这个二级是有一个非常非常明显的互补的关系吧。我非常庆幸现在还没有大的机构进来，所以还还有很多散户、较厉害的玩家可以赚到很多钱，那以后留给散户的机会会越来越少，因为你也看到二级现在基本上对散户来说没有太多的机会啊，VC已经逐渐内卷。所以我认为作为新人，其实NFT是一个非常好的，新人就是可以赚到一些钱的机会，如果你仔细去研究的话。

Vivi：我发现Crypto native 的NFT项目出现两个趋势，他们开始往其他领域行动，一个是DeFi和游戏，另外一个则是时尚品牌方向。 比如dudes，他们希望做一个dudes品牌，做时装也好，或者是变成一个艺术收藏品也好。还有一些女性项目如results by cutting，他们本身是时尚行业来的，然后时尚行业会有先天的优势吧。 另外一个就是我们看到有一些去年6月份就已经在发了NFT的项目，然后现在开始做游戏了做gamefi了，相比突然进来的这个项目方来说，他们其实是有先天优势的，因为他们社区粘性非常好，然后经过这么半年的沉淀。持有他们NFT的人本身就会成为他们第一批的玩家，而且是他们早期投资者，有动力去宣传和玩这个游戏。 NFT另外一个优势在于它的入场门槛，相对其他加密板块来说更加低。

虽然DeFi如今依然是整个加密行业的大头，任何一个公链最先发展起来的生态肯定是DeFi。但问题在于，DeFi涉及到金融监管问题，链下的大资金很难获得官方的支持，很难出现网络效应。 但我们去年就发现NFT很容易有这种网络效应，无论是艺术品收藏家、知名品牌，还是大明星入场。另外我们发现国家对NFT的态度也非常模糊，例如中国美国两个金融监管最严格的国家，他们对这个NFT的态度是非常包容的，所以尽管NFT有一些法律上的知识版权问题，但它依然是一个很好的流量入口。

Molly：我认为并没有出现新的玩法，或者是趋势出来，因为NFT交易量就一直都是那2大头，一个游戏类的NFT资产，另外一个是profile Picture这类的NFT，可能会根据在受众的不同，然后风格有些变化。 有一个比较明显的变化是Panta bear以后，整个亚洲NFT参与度和交易量涨了很多。 如果从数据来判断的话，NFT二级市场的交易量单日最高是在去年的8月份，然后从那时候没过多久，交易量就往下走了。11月中旬的时候有个小高峰，然后一直跌到12月底，从今年的1月份开始到2月份交易量有一个小高峰，但是单日一直是没有超过8月份的时候。不过一个很健康的指标是它的Unique buyer在这个期间到了比之前高很多的一个区间，所以我觉得这是一个，很健康的一个趋势。

音乐NFT潜在机会和玩法

Vivi：我在关注sound.XYZ平台，它会在北京时间每周四、每周六的7点半，发行一些音乐人的NFT，一般价格在0.11ETH一张，目前我没有发现有跌破发行价的，基本都有2倍以上涨幅。这个平台是由A16Z投资，挑选音乐人也是非常谨慎。多数音乐人都来自很受欢迎的平台当中，比较稳妥，可以在XYZ里面蹲守一些机会。 大君： 我觉得音乐NFT平台关注几个就行了，Royal和刚才Vivi说到的Sound，此外Audio可能是当下音乐NFT的龙头，不过目前感觉市值偏高。

NFT的流动性问题

大君：NFT的流动性问题其实现在是在慢慢的被解决的，主要依靠共识和激励。 共识代表了社区，代表了认可度，例如比特币和无聊猿猴，社区人多、共识强，流动性他肯定是有。为啥有的项目它的流动性起不来，是因为他连社区共识都没做起来，类似于像JPG这种基本上没有什么用、只能拿来看，它的流动性当然很差。 依靠共识可以初步解决流动性，要深刻的去解决这个问题的话，需要激励。 比较明显的例子是Gamefi，你可以拿NFT去打金，有玩家就会买高级NFT，因为他有收益有激励。还有现在一些金融，就把NFT拿去质押产生激励，它的流动性肯定就会提高。 第三点是交易模式的改进，也会提高流动性。ZARA有一个交易模块，可以在基于ERC721的基础上挂单交易，就意味着说可以像比特币一样或者以太坊一样，可以直接一键出售。 综合来说，FT市场的流动性怎么解决，NFT市场的流动性也可以怎么解决。

Mori：ZARA为什么流动性比较好，就是因为它不只他是个协议，他不只限制你，你Mint的NFT可以在其他任何交易所交易，他们最近有一个机制新出了一个开源协议Finder也很有帮助。用户可以将看中的艺术家作品宣发出去，任何人通过宣发链接购买了艺术品，都可以获得部分抽成。

Tutu：我想说的是流动性太好了也不行，对于NFT的JPG玩家来说，流动性太好，项目就做不起来，因为他的那个换手频率太高了。 例如在以太坊上mint时，你的费用加上Gas会导致，你需要等到一个更高的价格卖出才会盈利，这样对于NFT升值是有好处的。 我在思考为什么JPG的项目只有在以太坊上玩得好，可能是因为本身的gas高，造成了它的整个整体流动性没那么高。例如，一个JPG的NFT项目，总量1000个，全放在市场上卖，那不是分分钟归零吗？就是你要看它的放在市场上，比如说开了1000个盒子，只有100个在市场上流通，那其实有可能要往上涨了。 这个我觉的就就像房地产，并不是说流动性越好，这个东西就越升值，很多时候不能按照这个二级的观点来看这个问题。

Jay：我觉得还有一个指标，就是在Opensea上打金可以填写报价，将挂单过高的价格过滤掉，知道真正想大概卖的人是多少。 还有一个我特别喜欢看的就是那个Whale watcher，看有多少100万美金的账户的人在买这个东西，接近100，200个Whale watcher在里面，他们肯定是不会走的，而且很多流通性在他们手上，那他想要就是炒起来的话是相对比较容易的。 NFTGO是很好的查看这些数据的免费网站，可以看到价格走势变化，Holder当中有多少Whale进入。再辅以观察一些社交媒体宣传，就能了解到项目的空间。

NFT交易所的竞争

Tutu：NFT交易所赛道我觉得还是以Opensea为主，市场份额占了90%，太难撼动了。 X2Y2当前币价表现不佳，并且在处理公关事件时显得不够成熟。那个LooksRare我觉的团队挺强的，东西挺好用的，但是我并不会去买它的代币。 其实整个NFT是一个非常中心化的领域，项目方任何一个决定都可以影响到它整个价格，包括跑路或者犯了一个错误，那可能就会引起NFT的巨大波动，所以是一个非常中心化的一个赛道吧。

Linda Jiang(MEXC Global Listing Manager):今天准时开启499的分享会，欢迎各位嘉宾入场，我们今天开始讨论“加息与比特币-多面的达摩克里斯之剑”，非常欢迎各位的入场，非常荣幸有请到我们的嘉宾，Phyrex，他是一个市场分析员，首先请Phyrex介绍一下自己。

 Phyrex：各位小伙伴好，我叫尼森，英文名是Phyrex Ni，专门做链上数据分析，分析BTC和ETH，根据链上一些数据走势看看BTC和ETH中长期发展规律。最近我看得比较多的资金方面还有政局方面的一些情况。我们主要看到的是，所有能够发现和我们能够看到的链上数据，以及政局信息对于BTC和ETH的影响，谢谢各位！

Linda Jiang：好的，非常感谢Phyrex的介绍。首先我们再来介绍一下仓公子，仓公子他是AKG Ventures Founder，也是创始人之一，非常荣幸，有请仓公子介绍一下自己。

Mr.Cang：大家好，我是Mr.Cang，仓公子，我们AKG主要做全天候的投资，数字货币在我们整个投资比重当中占30%，我们在市场做了四年时间。二级的业绩是行业领先，一级领域，交易所这个赛道是做得算已经成功的。我们自己整个策略是比较偏向全天候宏观基本面，今天这个话题算是我们平时做的主策略当中比较关注的点，感谢499的组织与邀请。

Linda Jiang：谢谢仓公子的发言，大家也知道AKG Ventures也是在业内有名投资机构之一，Phyrex是链上数据分析师，他们两位有比较丰富的经验，在加密市场里面。

今天开始正式的话题，今天主题主要讲美国加息对比特币市场会有什么样的影响，是正面影响还是反面影响？我们会有几个问题进行讨论。同时欢迎，在此期间大家有疑问可以申请举手提问，我们来听听美联储加息对比特币的影响。

今天第一个问题，大家有想过对于金融市场而言，传统意义上美联储加息，历史上意味着什么？大家有考虑过这个问题吗？包括历次加息的过程，不仅仅对美股对房地产行业或者是整个国家经济都有非常全面的影响。第一个问题提问Phyrex，传统意义市场上面如果美联储加息，意味着什么？这个请Phyrex发表一下你的看法和意见？

Phyrex：好的。目前美联储的加息，我们可以说的是利息，利息指的两个方面，一方面我们存款利息，但美国人本身对于存款不是特别在意，另外放贷的利息。这种加息意味着美金回归美国，对于整个市面的影响，大家手上平时资金，市面上的资金就不会特别多，大家希望能够从风险投资里边把钱拿出来，更多投进到避险资金里面，比如说黄金等等这样。谢谢。

Linda Jiang：感谢Phyrex的分享。我们知道美联储加息，刚刚Phyrex说了，可能美金要回归到美国市场。那对于加密货币来讲又有不一样的影响，那我们来请仓公子讲一下你对传统意义上美联储加息的看法是什么，包括每次美股加息都意味着什么？

Mr.Cang：现在我们用的所有国家的法币，它都有不同国家的金融体系，大家关注数字货币或者说加密货币它是构建了另外一个金融体系，每个金融体系有每个金融体系的规则。今天主题谈的美国加息，大家说美国加息就是美联储加息。美国加息跟中国加息也不一样，美国是市场经济，它比较崇尚自由，市场调控，它加息调的是联邦基金的利率，大家经常在财经软件上会有推送，所谓的FOMC会议，就是联邦公开市场利率的会议。这个会它是固定的，由12个代表来参加，基本上每六个星期会开一次，所以你会经常见到新闻推送，这个会议叫议息会议，所谓加息跟降息的会议。

它这个加息和降息不是调存款或者贷款利息，美国政府是没有权力印钱，政府只有权力发国债借钱。它这个国家金融体系设计是设置了一个联储，联储负责买美国国债给政府输血，以及给银行放贷来调控金融体系当中的利率。它其实调整利率跟用户端，跟居民或者说人民跟银行是没有什么关系，它调的是业内居间的利率，也就是说它是放贷给银行的利息，银行当钱不够借的时候，它会向联储来借钱，通过影响这个利率，进而来影响所有金融商业机构的借贷成本，因为金融商业借贷成本受到影响，所以他们会调整业务利率数值，再传导到市面上。所以大概的一个流程是这样。它跟国内金融体系不太一样，我解释一下，它加息的意义就在这个地方和这个模式。

Linda Jiang：非常感谢仓公子发言，我在这儿给大家分享一个小知识，什么是美联储升降息。美联储的职责，首先它是要提高借率和稳定美元价格，为了稳定美元还有美股市场就业率，美联储通过主要手段短期升降息，提高美国就业率还有稳定美元价格。息指的什么意思？就是美联储存储的利率，银行还有和银行之间借款，比如说像美联储拆借隔夜利率，目前市场上美联储它是流动性的水龙头，银行都要向它借款。我们大家要知道美联储升降息是什么样的概念。刚刚也说过，美联储加息在传统意义上，在历史上意味着什么？刚才Phyrex有发过言，我们请Phyrex讲一下，以前美联储加息过程，整个市场金融不仅仅是加密货币，你可以主要讲一下对于加密货币市场会有哪些影响，但是着重讲一下怎么历史上或者传统意义上加息会对市场造成哪些影响，请Phyrex先发言。

 Phyrex：我们先说最近的一次，最近一次在2016年就提出来要加息，实际上到2017年才开始加息，它的基准利率从0到了2.5%。它这个概念主要是什么？那个时候美联储包括美元基金对于币市来说干预并不是特别多，更多是在股市里边。**一旦加息，长期来说是一个下跌的过程。加息是逐渐的过程，不是说一加息马上就把钱抽走，对于加息，我们都知道对经济影响，但是对加息整个影响并不是加息本身，而是加息后边缩表的过程。**我们看历史数据里边，最短的一个时间对于经济的影响差不多是11个月。在刚刚开始宣布加息的时候，美股是没有下降，反而上涨，一直上涨到了差不多2017年左右才开始进行下跌。这个时候我们回过头来看币市，那个时候币市跟美股接触不是那么多，美元资产到这边来不是那么强关联，我们可以看到刚刚宣布加息，2017年走出一个小高潮，当时大饼走到了1.9万左右。再往后的时间才是资金逐步缩水才变成了整个经济体系的不好。

我们再回过头来看，从美国历史上，第一轮加息是在1982年的时候，利率从8.5%上调到11.5%。这个时候加息收割的不是美国本国的资金，而是美国以外包括拉美、欧洲这些国家，把资金回笼到美国，让美国经济复苏。之前我们可以看到，1981年，美国膨胀率已经非常高了，相对现在来说已经很高，当时膨胀率差不多在13%。这么高的膨胀率经过加息，到了1983年、84年左右，膨胀率已经降低4%，中间这个水分少了有多少。

第二次应该是在1988年到1989年，美联储利率从6.5%到了9.8%。这一次原因主要也是美股在前面，在88年、89年是比较走强的时候。这一次比较奇怪，在加息的过程中，加息并不是一次性就把水抽走了，但88到89年这次比较奇怪，这次加息并没有导致美股整体下跌，大家会有特别强大的紧迫感。

到了第三轮的时候，基本上在92年到95年，美联储的利率从3.5%到了6%。这个时候就非常可怕。为什么？90年的时候整个经济已经在衰退了，经济非常不好。到了94年的时候，包括美国十年期的债券收益率都已经上到8%。我们从这个时间段可以知道，90年经济泡沫崩溃以后包括连带日本在内，相当于这一场加息变成经济危机，这场经济危机带来的意义很深远，大家经过上一轮，88年到89年以后，觉得加息不会对整个生态或者美股或者美元领域带来太大的冲击力，觉得没什么太大问题，没想到第三轮加息把整个势头破坏了，陷入了一个非常非常长的经济危机时间。

第四次加息在98年到2000年，利率从4.5%到6.5%。这个时候发生了比较严重的问题，上一轮结束以后，虽然说美国和欧洲率先回来了，经济回来了，但是东南亚这些国家相对没有美国发展强势的国家，他们还是在经济危机的前提下，美国没有办法，为了推动自己的经济产业，让自己的资金大量回收，这个时候美国也是进行了一次加息。这次加息把前期走强的美股又给打破了，这是戳破了美国在2000年左右的泡沫。虽然说在东南亚阶段包括在中国受损也很严重，包括中国的A股在这个时间也是有了一个非常大的下行阶段。

在2000年以后，整个经济慢慢复苏，慢慢开始回来。一直到03年到06年期间，美国的第五轮加息。这一轮加息从1%的利率上调到5.25%，上调也是蛮多。在03年到06年这三年期间尤其04年，美联储加息了17次，每一次都是加息25个基点。到了2006年6月，一共实现了5.25%。这一次加息的目标除了要用资金回笼以外，主要为了第二次的两伊战争的问题，伊拉克战争的问题。它的主要原因为了收割欧元来结算石油。通过这一次加息，虽然说在整个战争和收割领域上，美国收割了很多大量的石油，但是这一次的加息，因为加息点数比较大，从1%到5.25%，让整个美股走势表现非常不好，所以美股在这个阶段非常非常差。反而东南亚国家得到了发展，有一个促进的作用，中国的股市包括A股也是有一个比较好的回调。

2015年到2018年，数字货币来说已经逐渐进入但是关联度没有现在那么强，只有2015年到2018年这次，大家真正体会到加息对于整个美股和对于数字货币市场冲击。那我们也看到了，就像我们前边说的，加息缩债以后并不是马上就会实现了整个大通缩，而是有一定时间。在此之前，是在零几年数字货币领域，不是专门做经济，不是专门炒股甚至炒美股大家对这个方面不会特别理解。

就我们结合到现在目前这个情况来说，虽然现在我们看整个的数字货币领域跟美股联动比较强，大家都知道跟美股联动强，尤其跟美股科技板块联动比较强，当加息信息一出来，包括大饼开始往下跌，美股也在往下跌。

这里边能看到什么问题？大家对于加息是非常恐慌性的，当真正加息落地，虽然是一个预期利空，我们知道加息无非从3月份开始，25个基点还是50个基点，我们清楚这件事，如果加息还是25个基点，**按照历史走势来说，我们最少还有10个月时间，能够有一个很好的回调阶段。**每一次加息在刚刚宣布加息的时候一直到正式开始对经济产生影响的时候，它都会有一个比较大的，不管是拉升也好还是反弹也好都是有一个比较大的空间，这个空间不管是长期持有者的一个逃离或者说大户的逃离或者说庄家的逃离都会有上升带动的过程，让散户资金进来，形成主力逃离的过程。

尤其在这段时间，我们受到加息影响比较大，最近几天的时间蛮新鲜的。你看从昨天早晨开始，大饼价格还算是比较稳，下午就开始跌了，这次跌就是乌克兰跟俄罗斯之间纷争的问题，包括乌克兰本身领土纷争的问题，实际上昨天晚上就业人数的基数，申领就业金的基数已经高于预期，美国本身加息它的基础是要在有足够低的失业率的情况下才可以进行。目前这个信息完全就是被市场忽视，全部都是用战争的这种情况来代替。我们一看战争总会害怕，战争会不会把美国卷进去，美国投资人会讲会不会把美国卷进去，会不会把世界卷进去，从而造成了一种抛压，这种抛压的主要原因还是市场目前太脆弱，脆弱的市场导致稍微有一点风吹草动投资者比较害怕。

我们追资金可以看到，我们举一个例子，币安24小时的资金量来说，虽然说这一周整体资金都不高，平均每天BTC在币安USDT的成交量差不多在12亿到13亿左右。但是昨天相对资金来说并没有礼拜一那么高，转入到交易所的资金量也不算很大，但昨天整体成交量非常高，这个成交量，一方面卖盘抛压比较大，因为恐慌。另外，它的抄底比较高，大家一想这一下跌成这么大，4万马上要击穿，我们发现没有击穿4万，是因为什么呢？交易所的存量资金还是很高，交易所存量资金已经下场抄底，我们可以看到主力资金对于现在情况来看，BTC他们觉得还是相对低的点位，他们愿意在这个点位进场。谢谢主持人。

Linda Jiang：非常欢迎Phyrex给我们讲了这么多。我给大家梳理一下最近发生了什么内容。1月6号凌晨3点，美联储发布12月FOMC会议纪要，会议纪要里面说市场预期加速Tapel，也会有提前加息的内容，美联储的一些官员，有关缩减资产负债问题还有包括一部分风险投资都有进行一些讨论。当时出现了一个市场情况给大家讲一下。

在1月6号美联储宣布加息之后，加密货币首当其冲，当日BTC价格下跌了，这也验证了1990年之前宣布加息的时候，美股刚开始有一个比较大的下跌，加密货币市场也是在24小时之内下跌了8.37%，所以整个加密市场货币数字市场陷入了一个比较低迷当中，24小时你像以太也是跌到11.54，市场当时的信息也是受挫的，可以说恐慌极数达到极度恐慌。

这次探讨的是为什么加息？每次加息的过程都会对金融市场产生影响，包括比如说在2017年的牛市当中，也是一直伴随着美联储加息过程，为什么会出现这样的情况？包括同样的事情会不会再发生，这个有请仓公子像刚刚Phyrex一样介绍一下，你对传统历史意义，美联储的加息包括之前的看法，发表一下你的见解，包括你对加密货币市场整个看法，加息之后是空还是长期的规范，也可以讲一下你的观点，有请仓公子，谢谢。

Mr.Cang：因为我们做二级市场，包括大家关注价格，影响价格的因素最大的影响是流动性，不管加息降息、缩表、扩表，真正传导到证券也好、商品也好还是加密货币也好，一个市场上最直接的反馈是流动性的变化。

这一次比如说大家在讨论美国的加息，关注度这么高和这么严峻，它跟历史上有所区别，刚刚嘉宾讲的时间点还是非常准确的。前几次加息从性质上，它就比较重要五次加息。

第一次也是最经典，第一次加息就是80年的加息，美国经济从80到2020年40年腾飞的基础。前几次加息都是有金融战争的含义，有别的国家来给美国加息买单，80年是拉美崩盘，90年是日本崩盘，97年是亚洲金融危机，2000年是互联网泡沫，到08年是次贷危机，到2018年是股市有一个调整。

从历史上来看，整个加息对市场影响周期性比较明显，你看FED那个表，除了第一次加息给整个40年腾飞奠定基础，后面联邦利率一直在降，加息之后后面一直在下降，如果画成一张K线图来讲是一个下跌通道，只有80年那波加得非常狠，奠定了后面的基础。到08年次贷的时候，这个利率甚至降到0，就到了0轴。

这次加息被大家大肆讨论，是因为大家在讨论这意味着这是否是一个转折性的加息的拐点。因为加息，市面上讨论来讲也是分为鹰派和鸽派。鸽派，我就加这一个息就完了，鹰派加息是包括后续整体市场，未来多次加息很强预期确定性。现在我们讨论加息就是一个比较偏鹰派的加息。

还有很重要的原因，以往看到几次加息有别的国家来给美国买单，现在不同，其实2021年澳大利亚、韩国、加拿大和别的经济体已经率先加息，有可能性是美国国际影响力下降，比如说像我们国家和更多国家的变强，和之前被割那么多次的经验，美国不像以前一样是那样占据主动权，当然这个也跟疫情是有一定的关系。

在直播间大部分是加密货币的玩家，我对加密货币的看法是这样。就像我在第一个问题说到的，每一个金融体系和金融市场是有它的受众，现在大家关注美股，大家会把数字货币走势跟美股来做一个拟合，确实这两年拟合程度越来越高，但单纯做拟合，大家不关注别的市场，如果你把它跟墨西哥股市，印度股市，甚至根本不关注台湾股市做拟合或者同市场拟合，你会发现有很多高度相似的地方。我们从基本面角度讲，我们不太做这种拟合的。

**我们看这个事情本质是，还是要看参与这个市场的资金。**今年随着说ETF的通过，和纳斯达克市场这个证券市场当中跟比特币相关的产品，与TF也好，投资的基金公司也好，美资渗透程度增加以及中资的撤出，中国政府的政策的撤出，导致数字货币参与资金含量变化，这个就像不同国家有不同的文化背景一样，不同的资金也有不同资金的行为模式，导致现在币市资金的表现形式是特别美资化，所以我们参考美资是比较有意义的。

在2017年完全没有必要考虑任何与加息与否，或与美股相关与否的状态。2017年是整个数字货币真正能被称为一个行业开端，也是数字货币第一次文艺复兴也好或者崛起也好，那个时候资金成分和数字货币市场参与玩家全球的画像，包括合约市场平均杠杆比率和波动性的一个表现跟现在都是完全不一样，那个时候是封闭的圈子。我相信直播间很多人都是2018年之后才了解这个市场跟接触这个市场。我个人观点，2017年比较任何宏观数据意义都不是特别大，因为那个时候参与币市的资金是完全不care这些宏观数据的。

由于数字货币市场吸引的玩家种类的特点，数字货币玩家最喜欢做一件事情，找各种各样的数据来证明牛市还在，如果今天这个数据证明不了牛市还在，我就换另外一个证明牛市还在的数据，在我们看来不是特别客观，2017年的情况是这么一个情况。

比如说现在在2022端口，数字货币完成了非常重要的一点是真正价格发现。我们从做盘角度理解，真正价格发现不是全世界的人都使用数字货币，而是世界最知名的基金和最大体量的投资者了解和进入这个品种，我们看到在2021年是完成这个过程。

**即便整个非洲大陆、拉美大陆、中东居民都使用了数字货币，其实对价格推动意义也不是特别大，北非+南非加起来都不如马斯克一个公司或者MSTR一个公司的购买力强。对于后续的比如说加息的判断，我的一个观点，它会直接影响到这些已经参与数字货币配置的宏观基金对于数字货币是否抛售和是否持有的影响，以及会影响一些像萨尔瓦多、土耳其相对比较小的主权国家它对数字货币的态度，和已经做这个研究报告、并且对数字货币感兴趣，在观望的这些基金他们可能会在合适价格来进行入场的可能性。**其它的影响都是非常有限的。因为数字货币本身，包括比特币发行精神，它就是构建另外一套金融体系，那所谓加息也好和我们现在谈论美国金融调控，它是完全对立另外一个金融体系，所以它影响到一些摇摆在两个金融体系之间以及在传统美元金融体系当中比较有购买力，能推动比特币价格基金的一些心态，它对真正后的党，2016年以前2017年以前接触比特币的人，可以说毫无影响，这是我的观点。

Linda Jiang：谢谢仓公子的发言，刚刚仓公子发表一个观点，他觉得咱们加息可能对于已经在行业内的，包括大型基金，主要看他们后续是抛还是持有的态度，然后还有小国家对加密货币的影响。

跟大家总结一下，美联储加息，为什么要加息还有缩息？加息提高利率减少市场上钱的流动性，老百姓把钱存到银行里面，这样将流动性回收回美联储。更通俗来讲，将市场上的热钱回笼。

为什么美联储加息？全世界疫情影响，很多地方没办法开工，降息是为了放水来刺激消费，像之前疫情，为了把经济转动起来，有些地方降息来放水刺激生产刺激消费，让经济车轮滚起来。

之前会议上面有很多官员说2023年和2024年分别加息三次和两次，在刚刚2021年12月份FOMC会议上面这些官员有讨论美联储是否开始加息之后相对较快，比如说开始缩减8.76万亿美元的债券还有其它投资组合，这些投资组合就会有加密货币的组合。

回到问题上，我们请Phyrex来发一下言，2017年牛市当中，你可以发表一下，比如在2017年加息当中加密货币是什么样的走势，是否伴随美联储加息过程，如果是伴随美联储加息过程，你可以发表一下为什么会出现这样一个情况，你也可以给出你的判断，你觉得同样的事情会不会再次发生，有请Phyrex发言，谢谢。

Phyrex：我觉得前面仓公子说得蛮对，2017年之前不需要太考虑美元或美元基金或者美国的这些机构和资本对于数字货币的影响。但是我们可以说数字货币本身是从西方开始起来的，这个大家都是有一个共识，买盘量比较大的时候，虽然说在国内的买盘量比较大，但是西方它本身有一个天生的土壤，所以我们可以看到，在最开始的时候还是民间去买，很少有大批量的资金转动，同时在我们看资金流转的时候，2017年的资金入到币市的资金相对非常低，但我们可以换一种方式来说，虽然资金低，大多是散户，但对美国经济结构来说，很多是白领或者蓝领，虽然说他们不愿意存款，但他们确实有很多人购买美股。当加息出现，我们看到2017年还是走到一个小高潮，那个时候刚刚开始加息的时候，市面上的资金还没有大量缩减，上一次的发言也也说过，在这个时候它一般会拉起一个小高潮，不管为了主力出货也好还是什么也好，上一轮BTC到了一个相对高点。 这种情况所衍生出来的问题，如果是普通用户来说，它对于把资金的抽回，无论数字货币里面的抽回还是美金里的抽回，不会有太大的影响，本身是要抽回。我很同意仓公子说的，它是两个不同的经济体系，但是对现有的这些人来说包括2017年甚至更早以前的人，对于比特币来说甚至还不能叫避险资产，它还是风险资产，我们看比特币波动相对比较大，2017年之前一直是上升的过程，但上升过程中来回跌荡也蛮多，包括这一次从6.9万跌到3.3万基本上腰斩，你很难界定它是避险资产，尤其跟法币等同的避险资产。

在这个之前的人，因为它的筹码足够低，它对于加息也好，还是对于整个的发展也好，对他们来说没有太大的概念，真正有影响和有冲突的其实还是后边稍微来说追高一点的，它本身是盈利，但是盈利没有足够多，害怕经济危机会导致数字货币里边的市值缩水，当时我卖股票和卖数字货币对他们来说都是等同的。那个时候还没有一个很明显的一个什么样的概念，像我们说的四年减半，比特币四年减半就会有一个大的上涨趋势，那个时候还没有这么明显。按现在话来说，当时这个情况下大家也是属于刻舟求剑，同期过年一定会涨，节日一定会涨或者什么什么阶段一定会涨，我们现在都知道这是一个刻舟求剑的过程，你不一定代表会发生，那个时期的人也是这样，四年减半，但你能保证减半以后还能上升吗？不一定能确保。在2017年的时候有一个短暂上行，大家都觉得肯定可以。那个时候包括很多做数字货币的人，大家都是属于一种投机形式，并没有关注美国加息会给整个市场带来什么影响，会给全球领域带来什么影响，而只是说冲破1.9万那2万，2万以后就3万，3万以后就5万，那跟我们现在说6.9万以后就7万、10万，PlanB发的经济模型，本来应该去年年底到10万，大家都有这种信心，因为PlanB之前全都是对的，大家都有信息，都有看涨，涨得那么快，6.9万下来以后马上就7万，7万以后8万、10万。当年2017年也是这种心态，肯定没问题肯定没问题。

高位上边很多主力出走的时候，因为已经抛了，接盘的人接不出来很大的量，它是缓慢抛的过程。市场上的资金其实才是最重要的，加息以后资金回笼。比如说我现在是1.9万买完了挂2万卖不掉，我挂1.8万卖不掉，因为市场上没有那么多钱。早期已经买了的人，可能很低成本已经持有的人，它对于1万也好、2万也好、3万也好，它不会进来买。已经在高点买完的人又不愿意在低点卖掉，如果不是很绝望的，它也不会在低点卖点。新的人从1.9万跌到1.8万会买，跌到1.5万赶紧抄，跌到1万减半，赶紧抄，这就是历史最底端，以后绝对不会低于1万，那跌到8千开始恐慌，不管多少钱都开始跑，就是这么一个概念。

加息导致长期影响市场上的钱的减少，而不管你是买股票也好还是你买地也好，最终还是钱。比特币推到6万也好推到10万，推到20万美金也好，你还是要有足够资金买，如果没有足够资金买盘，那你肯定还是不行，所以加息带来的影响，并不是加息以后直接破坏经济或者破坏什么，而是钱从整个市场上减少，钱的减少意味着购买力的降低，没有购买力的时候，高点位接盘的人或者中高位接盘的人，一旦他们需要有用钱变现途径的时候，他发现不是那么容易把手上的币换成钱，只能采用砸盘的方式，用当前最高的价格来把这个币换现。套现这种人越多，我们看到它是下行趋势，当下行趋势越来越严重就会变成一种恐慌，恐慌一高，大家都觉得不行不行了，还是有这么一个故事。

在2017年、2018年的时候，尤其2017年底比特币到了4千多美金，这个时候大家说要归零了，以太坊那个时候都已经两位数，谁也不敢买，当时说5千块钱我就抄底，6千块钱抄底，为什么3千块钱不敢买？跟现在一个道理，有很多人说比特币3万它不是底，2万就是底，2万我卖房子都要买，其实你真到了2万它买吗？它也不一定买，因为它觉得可能到1万，这种情况就造成了人性的干扰。它会觉得这已经是底，到这个底的时候它觉得还会再跌，这会形成死亡螺旋。

市场经过一个过程，这个过程相对比较缓慢或者这个市场达到了一个相对平衡点或者共识的点，即便我们可以看，到了2018年的时候，3千块钱的底端，那个时候加息还没有完成，那为什么它还是能价格从3千底往上涨，大家觉得真正市场共识包括持有资金的主力，认为这是一个很好的切入点，它就一直买盘往上买，虽然说再往上的过程它是一个缓慢的过程，而且是筑底性非常强的过程，但毕竟是上升动力。当市场复苏，资金已经比较充分，包括到了放水的成分，到了2019年、2020年，市场上有钱了，买盘上得非常快，我即便在现在情况下也是差不多一个过程。

整个共识底在哪里？尤其今年来说，**从去年来说，去年7月份开始基本上交棒，交棒以后大量美国基金、资本入市，他们买盘量或者筑底价格或者他们平均价格我们可以看到，尤其像MicroStrategy而，它最新公布比特币持仓量的平均价格不到3万块钱，在这种情况下，你想让比特币价格跌到3万以下相对挺难。对其它机构筑底的价格会相对更高一点，差不多3.3万、3.4万、3.5万左右，当低于这个价格的时候，他们不会想怎么卖，而是怎么买。**为什么？机构跟我们的配资不一样，这牵扯到比特币的定价权，这话是什么概念？当比特币2100万枚全部都挖完，市场上的流通越来越少，流通量越来越少的时候意味着你想买就会比较难，就像我们说的艺术品，艺术家，它画的画，为什么只有当艺术家去世价值大幅度提升，就是因为它不会再有新的，它是介于收藏品的升值，对于比特币你看不出来，但是长期来看现在机构买盘，他们就是为了争夺一个未来定价权，当然这是我个人猜测，当未来市面上流通量不够多，但大家对比特币有很强的共识，成为谁持有更多的筹码谁就有一个比特币的定价权。从现在返回到2017年，2017年经历了比较大的波折，从8千、1.9万到了4千，到了2018年更低，如果我们有一台时间机器能够穿越回2017年任何一个时间你去买比特币你都会觉得很好，1.9万你现在买你都觉得是赚了很多，即便1.9万到现在你还能赚一倍的价格，相当于我们不会太在意你回到当时这个时间是多少钱，因为我已经知道未来一定是涨。

对于资本和机构他们赌的也是未来。整个数字货币配资对于大型机构来说并不是很多，举一个最差的例子，即便跌到底甚至归零对他们来说也不会有什么影响，所以他们愿意赌这个共识。对他们来说时间回到现在，大家说MicroStategy每次买完以后，币价一定大跌，是不是比较傻？对他们来说，他们只是在合适价格收取更多的筹码，他们也不是从未来来的，他们并不知道4万下边还有3万，3万下边还会不会跌，从5万下来是4万，4万下来是3万，他们只是觉得当这个价格足够低的时候对他们有吸引力的时候他们就会买，他们属于行动派。

很多机构来说都是这个概念，最少最少起码我们现在有一个共识，即便我现在套了，我再拿到下一个减半周期我还是能够回来，这种信念支持现在很多人都在买盘。

我觉得目前来说从2017年概念来说，虽然跟整合经济体系还没有像美元基金进来这么多，我觉得从人性化讨论来说，对于现在起码不必要过于害怕，最恐怖的时间已经到了，下边如果要是再跌或者再怎么样下行，它还是空间有限，你真的想要跌回四位数的比特币机会不大，都已经跌破机构持仓点，他们刚刚破持仓点的时候他们会大量购买，这是我们为什么追资金的问题，资金的变化，现在资金相对去年的高位，虽然是降低了不少，但是我们再往前翻，到2010年到2019年到2018年现在资金也是十几倍多于那个时间，资金在现在价位购买也是逐步筑底的过程。

Linda Jiang：谢谢Phyrex的发言。2017年整个加密货币市场冲上1.7万，或者冲破1.9万，当时更多是投机行为，也是忽视了美联储加息的威力。

美联储加息意味着市场上没有那么多钱，没有那么多钱购买力会降低，没有购买力之后，短期如果一些中高位接盘的小伙伴们不是那么容易套现，短期形成利空的位置。短期利空，美联储加息，很多加密货币大部分拥有者也会考虑影响，可能会将投机性的产品卖出或者投资一些他们认为回报率更稳定的地方。但是也像刚刚Phyrex所说，短期再跌到四位数，难度非常大，现在有几个点位，一个3万多一点，特斯拉大力购买BTC，大鳄背后都有持仓点位，跌破他们持仓点位他们会再购买，短期来讲其实是一个利空形式。

我们看一下美联储加息，是为了应对这样的一个比较高的通货膨胀率，但是在短期，比如说经济下行周期里，大家觉得加息会导致经济危机。如果真的发生了，我们来请仓公子讲一下，如果它真的加息之后，币价会短期利空状态下，你觉得会对整个加密货币市场产生哪些影响，请仓公子发言。

Mr.Cang：结合我刚刚说的加息，刚刚提到MSTR非常好，如果对数据监控比较严，对宏观理解比较到位，在上一个季度，可以说市场最好的标的就是做空MSTR，我们基金在880也是大力做空MSTR，鼓励兄弟机构公开sure这件事情。那个时候你sure MSTR是远优于你做空比特币，还是那个观点，加息对加密货币的影响是非常有限的，即便到今天美资的程度为主。

展望对未来加密看法，我的看法是这样。首先我不做太远期的宏观预测跟长期预测，这个世界上不确定性事情太多，比如疫情来临，后面还会发生很多事情，BTC到一百万和归零的可能性同样在，打比方现在有战争的预期，当一个相对大的主权国家战争真正发生，当这个国家真正切断网络，这个国家内部BTC转账怎么算，跟外界BTC转账怎么算，很多场景是我们没有经历过跟预想到，我会对所有事情保持开放态度，万事都有可能，既然有对它上到一百万美金的愿景，同样也要对它保有到十美金的愿景，这些可能性都是相同的，只是有一些太宏观的事情没有发生，这些我不做看法和预测。

我说整个数字货币内部发生的一些线索比较明显和对未来影响比较大地的变化。

第一，加密货币参与的玩家和态度，以前是金字塔型，鲸鱼大户非常少，到散户越来越多。到现在整个数字货币玩家分布变成了一个纺锤形 ，中户最少，尤其经过2021年之后，大户特别大，小户特别户，中间那一段变成哑铃，从金字塔型变成哑铃型，中间的中户断层消失，这个现象催生出的结果，当今币圈领军企业也好、基金也好或团队也好，他们对于BTC的态度和以往的OG和以往的参与者支持者是完全不一样的，他们对BTC的支持程度也是一种商人般的支持，而不是像早期的BTC社区里拥护者的态度一样。你从当今比如说我们新秀领军人物的发言也能看出来，以往领军人物都充满对比特币的信仰，很多新秀的这些领军人物对比特币，明显不是以信仰方式出现，并不是以纯多头的方式出现，买盘来源也是大量创业者的创业需求和产品设计的需求，它需要进行BTC或者以太坊这些硬通货的储备，比如它要做一个借贷平台或者交易所它必须有这样的储备，之前上行周期大量买盘是来自于这些买盘，除了机构买盘之外。

随着BTC波动性的降低，虽然大家都很喜欢加密货币跟数字货币，很客观角度讲，加密货币的上升趋势从2018年以来到现在是没有跑赢美股，跟纳斯达克指数涨幅比，跟它不是同一个级别流动性比，它不管从涨幅还是走势健康程度，它确实是不如同级别的波动性的股票，所以说BTC吸引力对于机构来讲是有所下降的。但是整个币市转向，机会更多转向，比如说Cypto.com、FTX、SOL、Avalaunch这些新的不太依赖比特币和不太关注比特币这个走势的这些，我把它称它后区块链时代。前区块链时代可以说所有的autocoin和alternative token都是跟随BTC，那从去年下半年开始，是一个非常质变的转折点，也就是区块链进入后区块链时代，BTC还是有旗帜效应和标杆效应，但BTC不再引领全部行情，未来数字货币的发展，很多局部的行情和独立阿尔法的机会，会区别于比特币行情而存在。

你想在这个行业摘低垂果实，继续发一些大财，如果你没有特别强的交易基础，应该把重心转移到偏向于后区块链时代基础设施，如果这个行业能发展好，那这个路径上可能会存在的命题，首先站得住脚不是伪命题，具有成为市值前十潜力，我觉得作为个人投资者，大部分听众是个人投资者，大家机会可能在这个地方，而且这些机会受加息程度影响，我可以说你可以不考虑，你可以忽略不计。你觉得Avalaunch的涨跌会受太多加息的影响吗？不会，原因是支持Avalaunch的基金也都是纯币圈的基金，我不是推Avalaunch，我也没有这个token，我只是拿这个公链举一个例子。也就是说BTC和ETH的持仓机构可能会受加息的影响，影响比较大，但是像SOL这些Token背后的机构，是不在意它，这个就是我对后面的一个比较可操作性的一个建议。

Linda Jiang：好的，谢谢仓公子发言，最后再来请Phyrex来说一下，你对于美联储加息包括为了应对高通胀，您觉得在经济下行周期里，刚刚仓公子说了，咱们不做宏观远观长期判断，比特币达到一百万或者归零的可能性存在，你觉得加息会导致经济危机短期的利空，长期有没有利好的行为或者影响，你也可以讲一下，你觉得美联储加息会对比特币还有加密市场货币产生哪些影响，你可以再简单分享一下。

Phyrex：没问题，前面仓公子说得很多，我觉得都蛮正确，大家在细分领域上不太一样，仓公子还是以整体投资为主，尤其我个人主要看BTC和ETH为主。这种情况下衰极转盛，前边我也说了在2017年底、2018年初也是经济危机导致BTC缩水，对于现在来说，现在回到这边来说，给我们一个很难得的机会，四年一次难得的机会去购买低价的筹码，这种情况对币圈长期来说的一个利好或者现在投资人入场的一个利好，这是我保持比较正向的想法。尤其是6万多BTC，资金量是非常大的，一直在抢买，觉得BTC还能往上买，但跌下来都不敢买，就是传统买涨不买跌，机会都是这么来的。早期李笑来老师和以前大的持仓用户，他们也是熬过一两个周期，拿住手上比特币实现很大的自由。即便我们用现在的观点来看现在这些大V或者KOL来说，他们很多时候也是吃了几波红利，分两批。

一批，古典投资人我们可以叫做盈利者，比如说拿着比特币从上一个阶段，从2017年持有几百个现在也自由了，以太坊持有几千个现在也很自由，那时候很便宜，更早的时候，价格相对更低的时候，让大家入场的过程。所以我觉得目前来说，对于每一个人来说，你觉得你的共识点在什么情况，你觉得BTC值多少钱和你对于未来预判是多少，控制好的你仓位，少量来进一点。如果我们相信大周期下一个周期以后减半，BTC价格还会回来，我们不指望一定涨到一百万，下一个周期，哪怕能回到6万对现在来说都是赚有一倍收益。

另外有一点，稍微跟仓公子不是特别一致的想法，我们也是看大周期，BTC减半几个大周期来说，到目前这个周期，市值前十的币和2017年上一个周期市值前十的币来对比，还能剩下几个？我们老牌的一些现在叫古典投资的币到现在不是说没有涨而是涨幅非常小，比如SOL，Avalaunch，包括DOT在内，这次涨得都不错，但老牌都没有了。

如果现在是一个变局，所有的币只有当大饼跌的时候，可能个别有一两个币能走出短期独立行情，长期很难走出独立行情，不管是谁的钱它都是钱。打个比方如果一直跌，只有这一个币涨很容易把资金切过去。当涨上来，它不一定会对你有很高的信任，目前来说，比特币是我们的一个信仰，只有比特币是信仰，以太坊是整个的应用层。在大前提和大的数字货币这个领域里边，你还没有第三个币能够超过，信仰里边你没有一个能够超过BTC，应用层没有一个超过ETH，美股都在跌我逆势涨，短期有可能，长期来看可能性真的非常低，无非吃你一波红利，你如果有资金拉盘，我吃你一波红利，等到吃完，资金出来了，我卖了我就走，然后我再等。

话说回来，当9月、10月、11月，大家一直讨论一个什么话题？BTC的占比为什么这么低？是不是它就要继续往下跌？BTC只有价格跌下来占比才会高，我们先不去考虑拉盘，而是我们看为什么跌下来以后BTC的占比反而会高？因为我们都知道当整个大盘下跌，除了今天以外，基本上都是BTC跌一个点，ALT跌5个点，其它差一点跌十个点。如果你还想保留继续留在数字货币领域，你要稍微避险一些来说，大家都会把资产切换成BTC，这就是BTC占有率越来越高，BTC价格下跌我们还是去买BTC这是给我们很好的机会。只有有了BTC大家才知道数字货币整个魅力。

我们打心眼里最认同BTC统治地位，即便占有率已经在降低，但是我们坚信它还是整个风向标。为什么会形成这样一个概念？因为它都相信下一个阶段，可能熬过这个阶段以后，可能几个ALT未必能够回到高点，没有人敢肯定我一定回到高点，但是大家都有一个信任，BTC跟ETH从发行到现在，无非套你四年，四年大概率能解套，大家信仰这个，所以一旦被套，他情愿切回BTC，因为我去搏下一个阶段它还能涨起来。

除了这两个以外，我们很难相信还有哪些币还能够正常排在前十的市值到下一个大周期，这可能远了一点，话题就在这儿。你很难相信下一个大周期的时候，你现在看着很好的币，下一个大周期还在前十，不一定。我们看历史里边，2017年都有哪些。比如说EOS，现在怎么样？大家已经把它当成稳定币。那个时代是属于它的辉煌，在EOS刚出来，觉得EOS太棒，不管去中心化也好它还是对于整个生态支持也好，整个就是太棒，整个就是以太坊的挑战者。

下边又陆陆续续出了很多，我们没有人敢保证它还是一样笑到下一个大周期。利好质优还是有可能，比如说像SOL，它背后靠的是FTX的老板，本身财大气粗，马上FTX寻求上市，刚刚融资结束，它确实有足够资金去拉，但是他们本身也是生意人，他们不会为了维持生态一直去拉，对他们来说最本质是什么？最本质是它的FTT，如果FTT都在跌，你怎么指望它拉SOL？毕竟一个干儿子一个亲儿子，在我的感觉里面，大饼一定在下跌时候整个市场占有率在上升。我们回到这边来，如果你想要避险，肯定在你赚钱的时候你换成U本位，什么时候你觉得比较低的时候，你再冲进来就好，这是一个最安全的方法。

另外一个方法，我不愿意离场，我不是一个非常短期操作的时候，我一定我能够抓到最低点，可能我割完或者卖完以后马上大饼涨上来，涨上来以后就踏空，这不是不存在，所以这就是为什么很多的ALT和很多资金切回BTC的原因或者切回ETH的原因。

今年虽然说加息是一个很恐慌的情况，但是2017年，同样的时候，缩债里边的资金有十几个月的时间，给我们足够的时间。另外2017年到2018年，没有除了减半以外大的利好在整个市场里边来推动我们，它有一个利好我们愿意去买单。但是现在我们可以看到，在今年即便有加息，但是我们还是能看到几个比较利好的发生，一个是ETH2.0，V神已经说了，6月份开始。为什么以太坊即便跌成这样，但是它还是没有跌破到非常低的价格？大家就觉得我情愿去放到ETH2.0里边去staking我也不要卖，6月份开始以后以太坊很有可能会有一波大的冲金，与其我现在割肉去卖，我倒不如留着赌一把，跌还能跌到多少，这就是一个利好。

再加上灰度现货ETF征求意见，征求意见是什么概念？为了正式通过这个ETF看民众的愿望，我们看到95%的人都赞成。我们可以说这是一个民心所向，再加上稳定币的利好，大家都知道白宫出了一个新的草案，这个草案是加强稳定币之间的硬承兑，一比一的硬承兑，如果这个通过了，对于整个稳定币市场，你可以拿着USDT、USDC很容易就换成了美金或者是其它的法币。这对于大家来说都是一个利好，就在这些利好情况下，包括前边我也说了2016年就开始加息，2016年准备加息，为什么没有加？就是因为11月份中期大选，今年又是中期大选，是不是会有像鹰派说的那么严重一次就是50个基点，100个基点，75基点，现在大家都不知道。每一个鹰派和鸽派说的都不一样，最终3月份执行是什么我们都不是很清楚。但是我们可以看到是什么？在今年有可能会有一些利好，甚至有一些利好在我们眼前。

如果你觉得现在价格足够低，在你的承受能力之内，甚至在你的仓位不是占有很多的时候，你可以考虑。现在整个历史基点，相对高价确实是一个相对比较低的价格，如果你觉得有风险多看看，没有问题。所以对于现在我个人的看法和我跟一些小伙伴的分析建议来说，多看少动。当你觉得确实是你心目中的一个价格，你觉得这个价格你不愿意错失，你再下场。如果你有一丝犹豫情愿放着。你现在有盈利，即便你是坚持变现对你来说也是好的。你觉得未来还会跌得很惨，现在你稍微割一点肉，你等着一个更好的价格也不一定是坏事，毕竟是落袋为安，谁也不知道未来一个月两个月三个月会怎么样，只是从数据分析，从整个链上数据分析和资金走向，我们能看到抄底的人比卖的人其实是不少的，其中有一个数据我们可以看到，每天BTC、ETH转入交易所和转出交易所的量。最近几天都是转出提现量会大于转入的量，用一个很通俗概念怎么说？我不断把你卖的都买了，我还把你挂单也买了。所以我觉得现在对于加息，如果现在还是属于6万多高位，我劝小伙伴多小心，对于现在3万多将近4万还是会下跌，但是下跌空间有限。这一次下跌对很多的比较坚定的人来说也许它是一个让你走向财富自由的机会，当然也许是一个血本无归的机会，炒币本身是高风险的资产，只有高风险带来高收益，如果你愿意下场，你坚信它，你觉得它是你的信仰你可以尝试，你觉得心里风险太高，你多看不是一件坏事，谢谢主持人。

Linda Jiang：非常感谢Phyrex给我们发表了一个全面的讲解，包括他也讲了，包括BTC跌下来以后BTC占有率反而会更高。综合全面角度给大家一个建议，你们可以多看少动，综合大家心理承受范围之内，就像刚刚Phyrex说的，4万即使在下跌，下跌空间也是比较有限，毕竟3万附近是比较强的支撑位。坚定的人通过此次会议知道美联储包括对比特币加息的分析和影响。如果你们大家持有BTC这也许一个机会让你们实现财富自由也可能是归零，高风险的同时也是高收益，通过这次会议让大家知道美联储加息还有包括降息对传统金融市场上面的意义和影响，包括每次加息对全球市场还有包括对加密货币市场的影响，大家听过499block会议之后，听过仓公子和Phyrex发言之后对美联储加息对经济的影响在一个周期里面有自己的见解。

Diana(CMO of UTU.ONE): For panel 1, we invited Hang Yin, Phala Co-founder & Lead Developer. Liu yisi, CTO of Mask. Cal(UC Berkeley Researcher). Richard, Huobi Researcher. Apesian, NFT Influencer. Zhimao, Co-founder of Cyber Connect to share today’s topic about DID. As you all know, it stands for decentralized identifiers. Would you guys like to introduce a bit about yourself?

Zhi Mao(Co-founder of Cyber Connect): My name is Zhi Mao. I'm from Cyber Connect. Cyber Connect is decentralized social graph protocol for Web3, social applications or gaming applications.

In terms of a decentralized identity, we are offering great tools to first help everyone to aggregate decentralize their identities. So we are achieving this so called blockchain agnostic by using DID implementations powered by ceramic. So that's one side. And another side is about our social connections. So basically, everyone can connect through our protocol. And this kind of social connection data is portable, cross different applications across different communities and blockchains.

One can think of social graph is your contact list, your following list, follower list. So we try to offering a protocol for everyone to record this kind of connections on chain. And also on top of that, we have some data index and services and this kind of data index and services offering ability to for developers to get recommendations, data based on the social graph, based on personalized social graph.

Cal(UC Berkeley Researcher): I'm actually born and raised here in the Silicon Valley, here in San Francisco. I'm a graduate student researcher at the university, California, Berkeley. I studied on the intersection of blockchain and data science. For the last 6 years, I've been full time in the crypto space as an advisor for several different projects in around the world.

Apesian(NFT Influencer): I've founded and only managing one of the largest Pan Asia NFT investor communities on discord and also kind of like run initiative where we bring together Asian communities from all over in the metaverse to our Asia was made up initiatives.

Liu yisi(CTO of Mask): My name is Liu yisi and I'm the CTO of Mask network. Mask network is focusing on burning like the traditional Web2 people into the Web3 world. And then our approach is that we do such an browser extension that we inject things were dumb elements into twitter or Facebook, where many other like social networks, so that users can interact with the decentralized applications or any other like on blockchain related projects directly on top of twitter.

Hang Yin(Phala Co-founder & Lead Developer): I'm Hang Yin from Phala network, the lead developer and co-founder. What we are doing is trying to offer a cloud computing environment so that you can deploy some application very similar to the traditional application that can access the both on chain and off chain data. The same time we can make that privacy preserving. When we are talking about decentralized identity, I think in my mind, we need to establish a kind of identity. We can connect that identity to your social activities and the on-chain activities. And of course, this involve the connection between the on-chain data and the off chain data. On the other side, we also need to ensure everything can be privacy preserving. Otherwise, it's no better than your google account and Facebook account. We can help in a few ways. For example, on our end, we support the http request from the smart contract. If you already have an on-chain identity infrastructure, and you want to verify anything of the block chain, you can just use our infrastructure to access the data of the block chain in a privacy preserving and verifiable way. On the other hand, we can also help with managing the data and help user to authenticate the access to their data on the blockchain. This is only possible. Because on the one hand, we offer an execution environment very similar to amazon lambda, where you can deploy your application in a faster function as a service way. On the other hand, this run time environment is protected by the hardware, so that we can ensure the program is correctly running in the CPU and you cannot access the data inside the program.

Diana: The question is DID should be one of the most important infrastructures of Web3, obviously. But why there are not that many great products at present?

Zhi Mao: I think decentralized storage is one side about to store this kind of decentralized identity. There's another side about this called decentralized system. I think it's about the mutable content. So one can think of currently lots of things happening doing like on IPFS the content is immutable, but for decentralized identity, for example, you will update your social connections or your decentralized data in a frequent way. So mutability is one important side for disinterested in the besides storage.

Cal: I think that so we're covering the topic of decentralized identity. This is really good topic, because in 2017 at the world economic forum, I participated a in a hacker thorn at the world economic forum for blockchain and place. We actually focused on a project that centered around decentralized identity. What we did was we built a credit rating system that which scraped data from different social medias such as twitter. And I would develop a credit rating for the dark web. I think that's something that could really be established for that's gonna be paralleled alongside with decentralized finance would be the decentralized would be a credit rating system, because as we start building financial instruments in the decentralized finance industry.

Apesian: I think some respect is kind of like a reputation management, part of identity as well, which I think like is great to have self-transparency. To that sort of data, you could potentially access certain data that you otherwise not be able to and maybe act on it to improve certain processes for efficiency. I guess at the same time with all this data on chain, I think the question is right. Like statistics is not necessarily favorable for you, what extent is it going to alienate certain groups of people, make them not want to participate as much as we would have like them to, especially for some demo graphics that maybe naturally disadvantaged in certain areas. Then certain statistics might be actually compound some of that negativity over time.

Hang Yin: I think there are a lot of projects that have appeared over the past years trying to tackle this area. One project that I was following back when I entered the crypto space in 2017, I think part of it is probably because of how difficult potentially it could be to get regulatory approval or maybe even cooperation from government bodies, it was part of having this centralized Identity is like you want to be able to safeguard and kind of like your individual Identity and being able to like participate in the web 3 through that.But at the same time, I think it's really hard to get away from the government of things with respect to Identity if notice some enforcement issues, you have to depend on the regulatory. So I think there's a bit of like a back-and-forth in terms of to what extent we want it fully decentralized out to what extent we want kind of involvement from the government as well. As far as I know, I think some of you may have heard about the recent developments in China. Where they trying to create a separate NFT infrastructure. They will be using it for cases such as accreditation management for car number plates, for example. So I think like car plates that it's not exactly like an Identity, but you can think about it as each car number plate is going to be unique, and it's going to be verifiable on the blockchain. So you can think of an extension of that into the Identity space. We still need to figure out what is the extent that is acceptable for us, there like more of web3 natives.

Liu yisi: As long as he picture like your wallet address or your ENS，like name in your profile bio, it'll show the all the NFTs you've owned right now. But this is kind of like a tricky thing, cause we need, what we can verify that you are actually the owner of this address for sure, so we are releasing another product very soon. And we will add a button on Twitter that you can actually connect you Twitter profile as I mentioned. Maybe you can think about it as an identification number. You can link your wallet address, and we will directly double signature from both to verify that you are actually the owner of this wallet address. Then we will automatically show all your NFTs where all your on chain assets directly in your profile page. We're also releasing another product very soon. The whole point is that we want to build such a key based on profiling, on service that you can actually connect all your social media account, your wallet addresses altogether with signatures on both side. By this graph, you can actually link all your wallet addresses, or even your social web 2 accounts with other people. And then we will release this public graph for free to everyone.

Zhi Mao: I wanna add a apparently, a very obvious separation between web2 system and web3 systems. As Diana mentioned, you can do data analysts on the Twitter space and reputation, and then on the Twitter space. But when you try to link the Identity from the traditional web2 system back to blockchain base, there's a barrier and there's a difficulty to achieve that. And in terms of like issues, opinion about this public social graph, I have a quick question about like, how do you guys preserve the privacy of the social graph one owned on the traditional web 2 systems?

Liu yisi: I care the privacy a lot, because apparently like Mask is focusing on privacy preserving for long. And then, so like I will tell my users or our users that here's one thing that on one's public forever public. So there's a way, or there's an option for you guys to opt out from this system, from this like social graph. But once on chain or once on public, all the data will be public forever. And then this is the risk and or the trade off you need to take. And we will present users watch the risk warning before they do anything on top of this. And once they agree that to put their like data or to put their like connections on this public servers, they will be there forever, and then they can never remove them, for sure, they can remove like some connections, but all the data, where all the interactions, where all the actions will be preserved there forever, and this is the risk they need to take. I mean like for all the web 2 applications or web 2 platforms, they never gave users this opt out options. But now web 3, I guess this is the very core feature of this area that we gave users options, but you want a better service out of this, you need to have the trade off between you privacy, and your link convenience. And I guess we will probably need to educate more on this for our users or for all the web 3 users. And this is just very early stage for this right now.

Hang Yin: In the past, we used to think about a product is not built yet, but just in our imagination. But web 2, you probably heard about Google analytics. So basically, it is a java script plugin, and it's almost everywhere, maybe 90 % of the website have this plugin. It just collect your access in the network and upload it to Google, and they do some analytics, for example, how long you stay in this page, and what is the user retention and daily active users on each page, of course, this is surely web 2. So what we imagine was that if we can put all this infrastructure inside some decentralized platform, and if we can do so, we can offer users something like the privacy setting on your Iphone or Android, so you can switch on or off for each website, you can check how they access your data. And if you are willing to share the data with the websites or applications, if we can have such infrastructure, I think this can help a lot to for user to manage their user profile and the privacy data. And even you have shared some data with some application now, maybe after a few days, you regret, then you can turn it off. So only the already derived data can be used, but we can forbid any new data to be derived from your raw data. Theoretically, this is possible as long as we have some decentralized cloud, and it's privacy preserving. But it will be a very large project. It's not easy to build.

Richard(Huobi Researcher ): I'm Richard from Huobi research. We are Huobi group and we have various interests from infrastructure and applications of web 3. And I think there is a product called Arc X so they are building this passport on chain data. So they analyze your on chain behaviors in applications. For example, they record how long you hold an airdrop. And I think in the future, maybe this kind of on chain data could be used for on the loans, which is missing the DeFi space now. And the other thing I would like to share with DID that I think it's quite hard to build the DID ecosystem in the top down manner. I think project galaxy is exploring this very interesting way that they start with forming partnerships with DeFi protocols to build various credentials. And then they just released the galaxy ID so the ID is kind of intrinsically multichain, because those DeFi protocols, these credentials are basically from different chains. So I guess it's easier to build in the bottom up manners. First, you build a credential system. Then you build the DID. Galaxy have recently extended to Solana, it would be really interesting if they decide that the galaxy ID can be linked to both the EVM address and Solana address.

Panel2

Michael(499Block): OK, so, let me just point out the topic, the topic of panel two.So one of the hot topic this year is DAO, and the reality is that most of the DAO attempt have filled. Many people have also found that DAO efficiency and execution have problems. Are you participating in some DAOs they feel more successful? And would you think about the future development of DAOs? Feel free to share your thought on DAOs governance. I will invite our guest here to share.

Cal: Could you repeat the question again?

Michael(499Block): Okay, so, one of the topic is DAO this year and the reality is most of the projects have failed. So many people have also found DAO efficiency and execution have problems. So are you participating in some kind of DAOs and any successful DAOs in today? And would you think about the future development of DAOs?

Cal: Okay. Yeah, first of all, before we start talking about DAOs, I guess the most important thing to understand is that there's multiple types, multiple types of the DAOs. There's DAOs are, let's say, DAOs. There's also other DAOs are investment DAOs. There's also protocol DAOs. There's also social clubs that behave like DAOs. And essentially, there's many type of DAOs in the space. And even we have, let's say, also operating systems DAOs or OS DAOs what people call. And I personally, I have been working with DAOs for the last three years and a half, four years more less. And I have seen many DAOs failed, but I've seen also DAOs succeed.So for example, I’ve been part of the MetaCartel, the MetaCartel initially started as grants DAOs. People were coming to us and asking us for grants, basically for building the different projects. And we were supporting them at the very beginning. And then after that, they will have a enough support from our community to start racing from BCs or even racing from the same members of the DAO. So that's how you get started. Then after that, there was an investment, DAO that was created after the grants DAO. Currently, I think that the MetaCartel has invested in over 50 projects， if I'm not mistaken. At the same time， there's other type of DAO that has a legal (01:31:47) or like a legal framework that I'm also a member of, I'm actually one of the mentors and this one is called the Lao. The Lao was pretty much like the first DAO that had a legal (01:32:03) that was a focus as an investment DAO， also that the Lao, I think, has invested in over 70 projects or something like that. The Lao was created by the same people that created Flamingo DAO , (01:32:20) DAO, and a couple of other mores.Also, we're seeing that there's a lot of collectors that was coming out. So we have, as I mentioned, Flamingo DAO, we have (01:32:33) DAO, we have Well DAO, we have beats DAO, Squiggle DAO, (01:32:41) DAO that is focused on the(01:32:45) psycho system. And I'm more collectors are coming up. Then we also have the service DAO. So it may be a DAO that focuses on providing services, like, for example, Rate Yield, who is providing engineering power and also providing the product development and as well QA and other type of things.Then we have, let's say, the social DAOs, in the social DAOs, we can see DAOs like friends with benefits. We can see also DAOs like seat club. We could see DAOs like, they made a game DAO or even even they made a gamma delta which is a woman (01:33:42) DAO. And then if we talk about the protocol DAOs, there are a multiple there in the space. So we have maker unit swap, have a (01:34:00) synthetics, curve, badger, cream, balancer, or limpos Bitcoin and multiple other DAOs. And basically what they do is that they have a protocol that is functioning, and that is accumulate some sort of funds by providing some, let's say, some services with the protocol and with the products that they have. The DAOs or like the community are able to participate in the governance process of those DAOs.Then we also have the DAO operating systems, which is what I called DAOs OS, we have different ones like Aragon or DAO stack or Colony or DAO house, which was also a born in the meta artical ecosystem.And then we have another one which is pretty new as well, (01:35:08)DAOs that is also going to be an operating system DAOs. I think that just today, there was one that is called super DAO that was also funded, receive over $10 million yesterday. And I think if we say that DAOs have been failing, I would say, yes, there are some that fail that are very, very active and new. And I'm seeing a new trend as well, which the impact DAOs. Basically, DAOs are focused on creating social impact, creating, let's say, something better for humanity and offering, let's say, opportunities for the different participants to do good for humanity. Those are like all the different type of DAOs that I'm seeing.And I would say that is, it's a big statement to say that DAOs are failing. I've seen multiple protocols DAOs that are actually working intended. Obviously, like the most difficult part, is the governance side like what to allowed, who to allow to propose, how to manage those proposals, and also how to deliver them, how to measure impact, how to measure the different contributions that people are making.That's, I would say, the most difficult part and what I would say, what pretty much all the DAOs are failing, it’s because it’s very difficult to understand what people are contributing.So it’s very subjective and not, most of the time, not really objective, when it comes to the contribution of the human capital instead of financial capital, it’s very easy to see DAOs focus on contribution of financial capital, people are used looking at the money that is locked within the protocol.But it's really, really hard to understand, actually, the contributions made by humans, and what is the value that they're bringing to the social organization or to the DAO itself. That's my perspective.

Michael(499Block): All right.So anyone else? What's your opinion in the DAO?

Michael(499Block): How to pronounce your name? Manu?

Manu: Yeah, Manu

Manu: ok, good, I totally agree with you with the DAO stuff. I haven't introduced myself. I wanna have a brief introduction. I'm previously based in New York and study in NYU, and I had a startup about freelancery, which I think it's really highly related to the DAO as well ,and I will explain this later. I recently get more engagement to the websites, web three space by being a developer. And I was previously working in building a stable coin for oral finance. Currently, I'm building the active project that enables user to do NFT diffusion.Speaking of the DAO, and I think the DAO is the new form of the organization to bring the diverse people together, and I think DAO actually is not failing, actually has a lot of, has unlimited imaginations. Speaking of the first DAO, I remember is the DAO who got attacked, we got a (01:39:39) attacked, right? And got drained by out of a lot of money. People start to writing about articles, talking about the failure of the DAO and the insecurities, that kind of stuff. And we recently see various types of DAO emerged. And what I see, the people DAO, right? That's how the whole space get pumped about like the DAO and a lot of DAO just mushroom. I think that's, the people DAO is actually a great movement, even though it doesn't continue to build anything around it, it's actually a step forward to introduce the DAO concept to the others, right? And it gathers the power of the people and to invest for a specific thing. And it's like a really great way to get the monetary from the people. And also I see the growth DAO, right? Like recently have a lot of the growth DAO. And I think, I see it as a fans economy, because in the traditional web two, you have like Twitter space, you have a lot of fans, and you have the only fans, right? You contribute to the fans community. And the fans DAO is another innovative way of doing this, right? I see a lot of, and also the DAO for MFTs as well, and they kind of including the exclusive membership of specific area of people.For the future of DAO. I think it's quite related to what I built before, is I think the future is being a freelance economy, right? I think the future of working will be the freelance economy that everyone goes to remote, and we gathered talents without the location limitations. I think people will be more specialized in a specific area or skill, let's say, or may being a (01:42:10) developers or web three developers. So I'm being an expert in a specific field. And so this person can help in multiple companies instead of staying in a single company, right? And I think to tackle the specific problem very fast and help the company to build and grow in a specific area.And I think how does it relate to DAO and my thinking is the DAO becomes a new way to gather those kind of freelancers, not really the freelance, those kind of the talents, right? In the future, we can have like a developer DAO, right? The designer DAO as well. And those DAO, probably we're gonna help those founders, those who have a great idea to realize the project.And I think it's the crucial role to having those DAO to as the back of the web 3, cause they're gonna to be the crucial part to build a web 3 space, right? Like, I think those are kind of my views on the future of DAO.And also, I wanna probably, and also, I think, I wanna expand this to the NFT as well, that I've seen the news before like the Berkeley class, they're giving the student, professor, they're giving the student the （01:44:08）, right? The （01:44:10） as in the class as a recognition of the performance.And I think that's a great way of recognize any kinds of people. I think every institution should endorse that and give a person recognition on the classing performance or the, right? internal recognition. And how does it relate to the hiring? Because I think this recognition can be a part of the proofs in the decentralized resume, right? We can build a decentralized resume, maybe a DAO behind this can build such tools. And or we build a decentralized linking as related to the social science stuff. I think in this way is very easy for the company to hire and verify and doing the due diligence for the person they won't hire. And it actually will reduce a lot of time to check on users as well as the skills. It's gonna be the lifesaver of those HRs. Right? I think maybe we should have a HR DAO that we can get around the talents for the project as well.Yeah, so that's my thoughts.

0xYH.eth: So many of the things that you said(01:45:54-58) we used to call or are calling cooperatives. There's like cooperatives, the CD to cooperatives where basically telant is coming together. And they have the set of rules, and a percentages goes to the organization or for managing the operations of that specific organization.But basically, anyone is kind of like an independent worker that contributes to any other project that that gets basically hired, or there has some sort of partnership with another project or another protocol or so on. One of those is (01:46:44) and also (01:46:46). They provide, for example, engineering power. But then there so for designers, there's like the director DAO. There's more and more of these, let's say, cooperatives or detail cooperatives for a specialized work,

Cal: right, I'm gonna research for those style, I think the great issue right here is how do you let us know about this, like how to get around those resources. It’s kind of very important like when I, it's kind of panic or pain as like when you're doing a project that you don't have the right talents, right?And even though it's some, even some project leaders fo to the (01:47:45) or artwork, they're looking for the freelancers to do the job, which is, I mean that the quality is pretty much unsured.So I think for those kind of DAO, it's really good to incorporate those kind of DAO and letting those DAO to help the founder to build a project. It's just, how do we get around those resources, how do people know about there's a designer DAO where like a developer DAO. We might have a hub for that, to get around those human resources.

M12: 100 %, I think that what is really important to understand and to remember is that in all of these DAOs, because he's coming from a DAO, doesn't necessarily mean that the quality is gonna be top notch. We need to remember that there's still individuals within the DAO and maybe the tuition process wasn't the best.We still need to remember that just because he's coming from a DAO, doesn't mean that the talent has like the best skills in the web three space. They might have just joined and they might be learning.Again, just because some talent is coming from from a DAO doesn't necessary represent that the quality of the work is gonna be tough notch.

Cal: Right. So I think it's necessary to build an infrastructure to let us to verify on these talents, right? So we use the NFTs as like. So every institution actually may be able to issue a kind of NFT, right? To recognize those people in a specific skills and also the job he has done in other companies or DAOs or something, right? I think the great challenge here is the education cost, like do you let those institution to issue their own NFT that to prove this person's skills. I think it's pretty necessary to have such infrastructure to just as a proof of the person's talent.And it's a great way, and you're unable to cheat if we make the (01:50:34) NFT on transferable and stay on the block chain. It's kind of a good utility of the NFT have think of.

0xYh.eth: Right. So I think to build such thing is very interesting. And I'm looking forward to do more research about this field and see what I can do for this decentralized human resources stuff.

Cal: Hey, guys, can I just ask you about, are you guys feeling comfortable that if the important members like, say, the members of the DAO council and they themselves staying on? Because have something big just happened last night, I think. And some not just, you never know who is behind that a non profile page, and maybe he is a scammer or something.So personally, I would be really more comfortable with the, let's say, DAO multi (01:52:01) controller uploading his personal profile, and it's even better if the profile stays on trend becomes very verifiable. Are you guys comfortable with the important members of DAO (01:52:23)?

oxYH.eth: That's a really good question. From my perspective, I think that there's a lot of great talent that is contributing anonymously. Probably they wouldn't be doing that type of contributions if they were doing it with their own identity. This is double-edged sword.So, for example, let's say that you are living in a country like my country, for example, I'm originally from Venezuela, maybe the government there doesn't like that you're building something that gives more freedom to the people from Venezuela. So if you're doing a (01:53:24) and then, basically, you can create something good for those people. However. there's a risk, and the risk is what you said that they, that people can use basically sometimes uses cam and and create a new profile. And like I said like there's no reputation, just because they have ability of creating a new identity. I personally think that in order to create a lot of trusts with the community, it’s to better to not being on, but then also you need to keep in mind that maybe right now you're not in on. But in the future, you might become a target by kidnapper or by, let's say, governments that actually want to go against you or whatever.So I think it’s a tough question that doesn't really have a right answer. I think that it all depends on the circumstances, and what he said that that person is intending to do, as I said before, like it’s very easy to use this cam and use (01:55:00) and create a new identity,

Cal: I think, in my view, I think we have to thinking in different aspects, like in your real life, you have one identity, and in the metaverse, you have another identity. So I mean like you actually as a person, you can have like different identities in different verses, so you will build up your profile in your real life, but you can also build up your profile in the metaverse. It doesn't have to be, it doesn't have to be the person, the profile in the real life, right? So you can be Charles in the real life, but you can be Adam in the metaverse. But I think the point here is, you gotta have a profile in the verse, right? You gotta have, as you said, you get a DAO, you gotta have a page, a website, that's a web 2 way of doing that. If we have a web three way of doing that, we have a website that shows all the other members in the DAO, and they're the holding of the DAO tokens.And also each member we were clicking the profile, we see the decentralized profile and see what's their decentralized image is. So I think it's a different way of seeing this question. I think it's definitely very important for a DAO that has the member who has a really promising decentralized profile. So actually, I think right now, what we have to do is to build the infrastructure for those web three people to display a profile either in a skill profile or the social profile in the web three space.

Michael: We talking about DAOs, and you can refer to your project as well, could you give us an introduction first of yourself?

Leo: OK.Sure.Okay. My name is Leo Madrid. I'm based in the San Francisco Bay Area and a little island called Alameda. My partners are listening, maybe speakers as well, Doctor Kaputy or Doctor Ozone on Twitter. We are actually relatively new to the block chain space as far as developers go, but we are inventors and theoretical physicist. And we developed a form of hybrid quantum computing that we recently completed a global competition and artificial intelligence having to do with the combating COVID-19 with machine learning.And the Tweet was just sent out. I think the group here just sent out a Tweet with the link to our latest press release. And it's a pretty exciting project. And what we did was design an algorithm with customer equipment as well, that could accurately predict COVID outbreak rates around the world in 235 regions, 7 day average, 180 days out, it was a sandbox experiment with over 100 competitors, of all the 104 teams, we were the only ones using quantum computers and only 20 of us were able to actually finish both phases. So that was a pretty exciting time that ended like last March. And then we went from there to, what one of the applications we had in the competition was also a contact tracing system that was based on the XYO proof of origin block chain. And we have examples of that, if we were going to check that out, you can see our demo site at haloai.me, and my background includes I was an organizational development specialist for a semiconductor company, and also worked in the military in organizational development. And we just launched a DAO on astro DAO. We received the grant from near foundation, a $60,000 grant. We also one of the meta build hacker (02:01:14) challenge which was building our own block chain basically substrate block chain to host this artificial intelligence platform.We're currently in two hacker (02:01:27) and we're building the infrastructure right now on Estuary. The DAO we have in mind is going to be open to everybody, let me take this call.

Cal: I was asking if by any chance you were part of the Kernel program by Bigcoin?

Leo: No, I don't know what that is at all. No, we're pretty much exclusively. I've done some things on just some like personal mining and stuff on the theory platform. But as far as development, we're pretty much exclusively the near protocol and working on that level three applications.But what's exciting about this is a form of general artificial intelligence that we've already been able to demonstrate multiple things, multiple applications for. Once we get it up and running, this will be a tool that will bring, what we call it non randomness, and there's also an element of time that we, because the mechanisms that we used for the data unifies, the laws of quantum mechanics and relativity.And we're able to, right now, we're in the process of upload or creating a data flow that are the computer that we have feeding the system will be feeding live into the chain. And then we'll have hardware and software that will allow other users to contribute to the network. So what we're building, we call it a neural lace network, where every person becomes a node in the network. What I see, I see the DAO is a very powerful tool.We just launched our DAO actually a couple days ago, so we're just building it. But it's going to be, I think, our primary tool, we're putting all of our funding is going right into the DAO. We're kind of treating it like digital CFO, and then right now, we already have three open challenges or bounties that anybody could come in and contribute it.And so our primary audience for developers of our artists, generally, we're going to have a lot of people that will be contributing to what we're doing in a kind of piecemeal just here and there not necessarily a full time members of the team.I see the DAO is like one of the most exciting tools to help manage that while simultaneously offering full financial transparency for the project.And so that it can be found if you want to check it out, it's astro DAO. And our ours is called Peace Inc.And let's see, that's kind of the project in kind of a short version of the project. But there's quite a bit to it, there's, to my knowledge, that we're kind of a niche area that were the only people working in this field. If you read our press release, you'll see that we invented the technology. So this is a sort of ground level project and opportunity for everybody to get involved. But we could see in the future, thousands of people are contributing at their own level in multiple ways. And we really want to be able to integrate the DAO application with basically all of our other applications, and integrated it into full, I guess, corporate management, I don't really like the word corporate, we're more of a collective, so I guess it's a collective management tool, and a good way to have a built-in-checks and balances on the financial aspect of it. Just recently, we just started, we're looking at some physical spaces here in the bay area where we're planning on opening up a gallery, that's an NFT gallery along with fine art. And the DAO would be featured prominently in the gallery for everyone in it, because we kind of have an open invitation that anybody could participate at some level.Right now, we're in even two hacker (02:06:52) where we're up loading our core data right now, but we do have, if anybody wants to check our stuff out, you can go to our (02:07:01) page, which is (02:07:03).com slash Peace Inc, Peace Inc, and we have a hybrid quantum computing clock that anybody can download for free and just test it out, and this will be the kind of the foundation of our core substrate that when the chain is up, this would be representative the data that would be using, but it's a pretty cool App, it is a type of clock.So you can tell, it'll tell you what time it is, UTC, and there's a spatial nature to time that most people don't really understand how it works, time dilation, this has to do with Einstein’s Relativity, but our software sort of visually illustrates the spatial nature of time. It's pretty cool actually, I think everybody had seen it really likes it. So that's free to download, in the future, we'll be building what we are building is a clock that integrates our token with the passage of time. So we're developing an utility token,that will, you'll be able to come to the App. And once you activate it, the token will be correlated with the passage of time. Hopefully we'll have that up within, I think, maybe the month that we're getting close. This is probably not anything you've heard about or anything exactly like this in the past. This is new to us as well as everybody else that we've encountered. So it's exciting to be a part of like a web three development revolution. But are there any questions? Or I know a lot of this is probably not the clarity, because it's kind of a visual application, so I would encourage everybody to visit our websites and check those out. Those, that the Twitter link that I think was sent out with the link to our press release, you'll see the links in there to our websites and our demo site, just a little shortcut. If you want to read our white paper, it's just haloaio.computer.

Dani: Leo, I just wanted to, if you wanted me to go over anything.

Michael: if you want to introduce yourself and sort of your role in it？

Dani: Sure, my name is Dani Caputy. I got my phD from the University of California Davis in 2019 in atmospheric science and really wasn't involved in the crypto world at all. I was involved in the geosciences and philosophy of mind. And then when I met Leo and all of his amazing inventions at this event, and just following up and then seeing how I contribute and to the building of everything. We kind of explore different communities and eventually found the near community.And so that's how I kind of became involved in this world. But other than that, I'm a chip data scientist at the organization, Peace Ink. And you can find me in a lot of the videos and the press releases and white papers that Leo was mentioning earlier.So, yeah, if you guys have any questions, feel free to ask them now or just reach out to either one of us.

Michael: The time for panel two is almost up. We will wrap it up your exelent project. I will make an article after twitter space and we'll share it to our communities. And thank you--Iceland for sharing.

Leo: Thank you for inviting us. We look forward to next time.

Michael: Yeah, I thought we have some new guests coming here, new guests, we have Michael, Kevin, and George here. And we have S. Earthin. Why don't we start with Kevin from team?

Kevin: We can hear you pretty well. That’s awesome. This is Kevin, John coming from your San Jose, California and judge with us. Both of us are from the key project. So do you wanna have a quick self introduction or what kind of induction you want? Can I continue? Or just? Probably I got this. It's kind of I'm talking to, everyone never said and is listening, all right. Okay. All right, it’s my honor to be here. And before I joined the team actually I was the CCTO of another company in silicon valley company's house(02:21:48-50). If you're in United States, you probably know the company,because the company made the Kobe test kit. You can get it for free from the government. So that's why probably half of you already have it. But that has nothing to do with a block chain, but I started a team 3 years ago, that because at that moment, I was hoping to find a new tax stack to build an attractive and secure internet protocol.At that moment. We don't know what the web three is. But actually now I realize it is actually what web three is supposed to be. So we meet key project, and the keyboard is a keyboard. It tries to  make a a framework. So as a developer, assuming most people here today, developers, we build a platform for developer to build website application, and we're trying to make a decentralized clock computing platform. That means you actually can make a application as if it is a club is computing, a club is a program, but actually, it's running not in the cloud, not in the daily center. It's running on the whole--the minus host.So in that case, your application is fully decentralized. You don't have to pay an Amazon. You don't have to even Jeff don’t like the Amazon didn't want you to be there. You can still host by other minus as long as they think it's profitable. To make it easier, we are if we tried a lot how to make their building application, especially decentralized application easier. We try to use whatever we have. We learned using in the Cloud Air. For example, we still use three years from him back(02:23:45-47) and database. It's not amazing, right? Most people think it's not possible to have a database in the cloud, in the block chain, because block chain’s data machine. Whenever you deal with the state machine, you have to have stay like a block IB(02:24:05-07), a few seconds or few minutes, and you don't have anything like single server anymore.But what we do is we try to mimic what you have already learned. So we provide a decentralized or distributed database, and also  we’re using assembly. So in that case, if you write any code, you know how to a compile code into the vacuum assembly is supposed to be running as function the service and front and still Javascript. But that is not hosting a web server. We don't have observer at all. So your code is supposed to be host in any IPFS server. So for user, like, for example, for a consumer, regular consumer, they don't have to go to a traditional website, like HTTPS something. If the domain name, we don't have that. You just go to the IP address, the IPFS address and load the source code, the front and the south code, and the application running in your browser.And that application actually looking for any host node, which host your application, you don't have to specify what is anyone, because they are just the same. You can go to any of them. They as exactly the same. And that node will connect to what we call the back end database, or data machine is also another node. A group of node, not only one, the group of node, they rank new type of consensus to have a state recognized between each other. Those nodes actually can join or leave at any anytime. It don't have to think up the historical data. That's like most of block chain nose data. Did you know, sometime you have to think of a very long time to get over there, the historical data, but we don't need to. The reason is, we use a very new type of consensus and talking about consensus. Something may be considered the POWPOS whatever pure something. We are actually doing a very new type of consensus. We called a proof of trust and the proof of time.So that's why it's pretty interesting that our hardware to have special requirement, you have a minus know that have to have at least two special devices on the machine hardware. One is TPM chip. It's a small silicon, which is used in smart and in almost every computer. Another thing is even interesting that is GPS, you listen correctly. It is the satellite is we use it for navigation, we use that for a time stamp from the satellite. And those some people may ask why you need the time, I mean. The reason is we need the time to order the older events so that because all the NOSE have the same sort of the same source of the time event, they actually can solve together.That is why we need, we need time and the TPM in the trust computer chip to protect the unclear in the computer.So that we can trust on the node, which is, we know it's running, which are under-protected or under protection. We don't need to run a present for tolerance, consensus in our layer, too. That is basic, it's complicated. I try to make it easier. But I know after my talk, most of you probably get even confused.

George: So Kevin, this is George here. How's it going?

Michael: Yeah, great. So George, you can make instruction. I think you can speak better than me.

George: So I'm George. I'm part of the byzantine at T project. Let's just come, Kevin just said we're using a novel block chain solution where we have two layers. We actually have one layer that takes care of the byzantine fault tolerance. And you can think of that likes the layer one likes, I think, you can think it likes a bouncer at a nightclub. So a bouncer at a nightclub it checks the IDs.Once you're checked out, then you can go inside the nightclub. So you can think of our layer two is like the actual nightclub after the layer one does the byzantine fault tolerance. It checks that all the nodes on layer two are who they say they are through the TPM ship using remote a testation, then that means everyone in layer two can have a good, everyone in the nightclub can have a good time, because the layer two they can run at full speed. They don't need to do any sort of consensus to check that. That's what really slows down a block chain like a theorem. Because a theorem has to can keep every time this new block, there has to be consensus, and it really slows everything down.And that's why it's hard to have full speed, rich applications running on a theorem. You can imagine that a developer on a theorem who wants to do a decentralized application, they'll use a hard hat or truffle. They'll write the smart contract, but the smart contract is not like a computer, right? It's almost like a vending machine or a calculator. It's very simplistic. And then that code is then just a smart contract. And then if there has to write any data, have to write it to the block chain, which is another slow, expensive process. And of course none of these steps are decentralized and not even the front end layer.So that's what we're trying to solve in the T project is our front end is decentralized IPFS our execution layer is actually can run at full speed because our layer tools is no longer doing the slow byzantine fault tolerance. It's able to run applications at full speed within the protected unclear(02:30:28-30) at the TPMS of the mining machines. Like Kevin mentioned, we do have SQL layer data, an actual database layer that's not on the block chain. So if you have a theory map and you wanna write to the block chain, you could use something like orbit DB, but still people in the theory and, they're still in the theory of mindset where everything has to be written to the block chain.Everything asked me go to the ledger, and that really slows things down.Obviously, also, there's probably a lot of apps that need private data that you don't want everyone to see. So our solution, as Kevin mentions a little bit complicated, but it uses GPS again, that has another benefit in that. It's not a traditional type of consensus but. That's very slow. It's very fast. Both through our TPM, using our TPM and our GPS, so it's really a novel solution that will solve a lot of problems for DEBBS that are coming on boarding onto web three right now.

Michael: Awesome. Thank you,George.All right. So and besides the project of T. And we also have Ersin in here, the city of hero’s chained. Would you give us the introduction about yourself?Project?

Ersin: Thank you for having me here. Our Santa Skin from the hero's chained team and the CTO of the team. We are actually from Inventina games, which is developing a game by development framework to help real game studios convert their games to block chain technology. He has changed our first game. We want to go to introduce “play and earn” concept as an alternative to “play to earn”, which is, in a nutshell, game first from game five. What it means is we use the same and active technologies as the other play to earn games. So the earning part is the same technically play, but we focus on the game first, rather than game vacation of D-5, a great game, like traditional game, aiming the 3.2 billion real gamers out there.First, so the D-5 comes later. And also, we're actually looking for an answer to the question. Where do you find the money to pay the gamers when the hype is gone or external funding is gone? One way is 3,000,000,000 gamers are paying about $200 billion to the real game. So that sounds like yearly. That sounds like a sustainable fuel. And also we have an innovative consensus mechanism we're working on, which we call proof of touring. I'm working on a paper. If it is google super rational attack, you gonna see my article on the cryptography, my list. I call proof of work, proof of steak, proof of CPU and all that proof of cash, because hash power improving work can be convertible to money. You can get majority hash power, buy majority hash power. Proof of steak. Steak is money. You can buy CP, you can buy storage or proof of storage, proof of CP there. All proof of cash.I define a second family of consensus mechanisms, which I call proof of human. And proof of touring is the permission of this one. In comparison to proof of bio-magic and proof of KIC,what happens is just imagine gamers playing a game or games. We through VRF verifiable random functions, we match the detectors in touring test with the validators, both our gamers. So in touring test, detector interrogator talks to two entities. Imagine like what's up or telegram. One is human and one is AI, if the interrogator or detector can detect human from AI, AI fails the test, meaning it can't fake human. So that's the whole idea.So the detector gamer. That is randomly match by the validator gamer, play games to dungeons together. They can battle, they can talk to each other if microphone’s open. If the detector decides that after a while, the other party is a human, he approves it so that the game play, they're gonna play together and feel the anti-civil part of consensus. It's a good example of, as I said, the new family of consensus mechanisms, which is proof of human, and it's very effective and efficient. And it doesn't cost anything, because the gamers’ game, anyway, so you don't need any extra energy, like improving work, you don't need money. So it's utilizing the already happening event and it's also a decentralization to the people in the network product, decentralizing to 1,000 people decentralized to, I don't know, 1 million, 10 million gamers out there as in a nutshell.That's who we are.

Michael(499Block): Great projects. We also want to give time to Michael, the core developer as seller network. Hello, Michael.

Michael(TEA): Hi, everyone.This is Michael from a Saturday network.I guess first a little bit thing about me, joined the space full-time back in 2018. Before there was a google as a software developer. For us, we are project are focusing on there to skate ability in cross chain interoperability, mainly on top of a serum and other EVM chains.And now we're expanding to more now EVM chains, including, said poker dog, the cosmos and So on. Now, in other 9 BM chains, our main product, as of now is called C-bridge, which is a cross chain asset transfer in general message inter-parity platform or bridge. As of today, I'm just a cat dashboard here. We have handled about 2.7 billion dollars in terms of a total transaction volume. And every day it's about like 40 to 50 million dollars every day, and it's still growing. I guess we're like one of least, the projects are like least connected to website directly. But actually, we think the multi-chain and cross-chain user experience is gonna be one of the most important factors in the coming year.And years later because we seem like modernistic block chains like a serum, they cannot meet the growing demand of users and, even and the newer and faster, I guess like more capable chains, like the chains with higher capacity like BSCA party guy. And they also like fading because the modernistic design just cannot meet the growing demand of users. You see, valid struggling with huge blocks and sometimes like whenever like, say, some like Game-5 projects are gathering like tens of thousands users and users world experience very slow. RPC turn-around time likes the gas fees will start increasing even now BSC and polygon and phantom like we've seen those in the recent months.So that's why we think like the multi chain and cross chain world is gonna be the norm in the coming year. And so basically, we have, besides the asset transfer from C bridge, we are also building this general information of inter-parity framework. So the goal is to say, like one day, the user can like that-- doesn't have to switch this from chains, from the hopping, from chains to A and B, from Adam mask. They can just send instructions from one of the chains. And then we handle the rest. We're building this multi-chain operating system for the web street world. And we're still gonna start and focus on the EVM ecosystem, but we're very rapidly expanding to other. Now, IBM systems like our multi chain are covered, not just the EVM chains, but also like you'll be able to interrupt from two small contracts, likes the say, one on the theorem. And the other, I'll say, likes a terror or Adam, that will also be possible in the coming year. Yeah. And besides that, we actually started not as a cross chain team, but we started with the research and implementation of layer two protocols.So back in 2018, we actually implemented the first general message, state channel network. Only theorem, so basically we’ve done demonstrated that you can play a game of global coup at internet speed on a theorem. So you don't have to like there's no gas fee, there's no like a block time. There's no waiting for any of the interactions. And it's all free and fast for instant for every single user. But unfortunately, like we didn't see state channel taking off at any time. We still don't see it taken off anytime soon, just because the application is a kind of restricted. So you can handle payments very well, it can handle head to head games. I look very well, but it's still limited because you cannot like moderate. That is to say, you need to up on top of it, or you cannot model a compound like or none of the device. It's very hard to vet them to the state channel model of limiting a group, limiting set of participants.That's why I didn't really take off. In 2019, when a roll-up came around that we thought it was very exciting. And it is still like very exciting because we see like optimism projects, like optimism and Arbitron and the ZK rops are also coming up. I guess the ZKBS(02:41:23-25) or coming the beta ones are coming this year. Anyway, like we saw like growing up, thriving back in 2019 and we brought this product there to dot finance, which is something like the Wifi or like the year of aggregator or but it's both on top of a custom build optimistic group or later two basically. You can interact with the five protocols on their one from there two at the fractional of the gas costs.The users don't have to pay a hefty theorem fees, but you just pay the better two fees and you can't like the deposit withdraw from compound and another like D-5 protocols.We have a kind of, like, a beta version running, but like we basically, we thought at the first, I guess, last, in 2020, we didn't expect like more teaching world yet. We thought like most of the liquidity and most of the EVM were still gonna be on a ceremony one. I guess there was a cause some like too pessimistic on our side. And we actually, instead of there, we saw like BSC and party gun Fenton like out on strike all the EVM chains coming up.And the critics are quickly migrating to all those, other like parallel guess, like a multivious,EVM that likes they're too financed to really take off, but we're still like very optimistic on that, because more pun intended because this is gonna be,this part of like multi-chain operating system, like multi-chain 5-D world, We envisioned.So you can have this like one a specialized rob chain that just handles. I could defy aggregating and user can just interact with that one chain and actually go to multiple chains like many different protocols and multiple chains, right? Because that the first version of that aggregate was just for a theorem, right? So it's still kind of expensive because the underlying protocol still has to talk to the company hobby and all those nicer. But once you swap that with like alternative chains, like PSC or like the other tools. So I said like garbage trump, then you can have even cheaper gas fee. And we believe that the user participation will be increased if we actually enable multi chain integration in the layer to finance products.So stating with that and it's gonna coming up, it's gonna come up with sometime this year. So that's pretty much about me in our project and record to be here to able to share some experience about actually decentralizing. The process of developing projects will start from like a centralized team to more of a adult format, more of like a community of adult operas. So I'm very happy to be able to share our experience.All right.

Panel 3

Michael (499Block): Alright.So we. So our guest just came out of the stage from 3Space. Could you give us an introduction about yourself?

YH CHO (CTO of 3Space): Hi.

Michael 499Block: We can hear you. It's your time to share.

YH CHO (CTO of 3Space): I will. Hi, this is Michael from 3Space. I think we have a different interpretation when it comes to development and working together, coming from the far east. Working culture here is different and has a great hierarchy. It is better than before. But the power of a leader, elderly and experienced, sometimes outweighs performance. It is the same when working together. The voice of the leader is crucial to co-working and finding roles and responsibility. Yep.

Michael (499Block): So our topic is that, is there a better development paradigm to realize a better concept of decentralized development?

YH CHO (CTO of 3Space): Yeah, in this regard, I think it's hard to find a common ground for decentralized development, even if we clearly define each role and require training, however, 3Space. And we wanna make or we have three more decentralized, but we are maybe the better way.

Michael (Celer Network): We will bring a new perspective on the topic of the talk today. The power of developers in a decentralized world.So I wanna talk about the separation of powers in politics, in governments, in real world’s governments, governing countries. We have this concept of separation of powers. The legislation power is limited to writing code in parliaments, for example. Then we have execution, the government's running the country, but obeying the legislation, the code developed via legislation, power, and nothing else. And then we have jurisdiction. The judging part, which is sort of regulating the other two parties, so each component has its own domain of power, limited to that domain only. But in a metasystem transition, there happens a balance of those powers running a country in a controlled manner.What we have this approach on the development concept as well. For example, we're developing a Game-5 project, which is a depth at the center. As I decentralized the application. We have the game development team, which has the power to develop the  Game-5 project.including the smart contracts.and then publishing the smart contracts and running the game. That's the power limited to there. Then we have the main nets components, which is like a machine that runs the smart contract. It can't change the smart contract. It can't change the depth, but it can only run spot contracts that we have.For example, the gamers, the gaming community, they see the game, the platform it's on the smart contracts and everything, the features and everything. So they decide to play the game or hold the token FT teams and everything. So each of these three parties have their own power domain. The gamers can't change the game, or can't change how domain networks. So they are limited to their own power, but they also interact. So they provide feedback to each other. The game development team listens to the feedback coming from the gamers. The main net and the game net development, they can send each other proposals from their perspectives. So we have this limitation of authority and also this communication in separation of powers.But in a meta system level, This coherent balance brings beauty, the sustainable balance checks and balances things. So I think we should add this perspective in all aspects of decentralization, including the decentralized development processes. So one way is we can say the developers have too much power on what they develop. But if you look at it from the separation of powers perspective that power is limited and beautiful in that balance.But you can decentralize, distribute the process of development, maybe seemingly diffuse the power of a developer. But still, on a meta system level, we already have separation of powers, which is good. That's the perspective I wanted to add to the topic.

Kevin TEA: I don't feel there are things to add about the developers and making it easier for them to be more straightforward. If you look at right now, from the perspective of the developer you wanted to jump into, there's a lot of web three articles now being posted. It's really trending as a topic, web three decentralization.So many developers are gonna think to themselves--how do I get involved? They'll go and look at a block chain like a theorem and they'll say:“okay,I can't write the same code. I have to learn solidarity. I have to learn block chain concepts.” Okay? What about the server of their PHP, there's no smart contracts. Is our database later like my SQL. No, there's not. So it's very difficult for many developers to make the leap into web three.At the T project, we're trying to simplify that as much as possible. Now we have a three-tier architecture. We think developers can use their own programming languages that they're familiar with, whether it's Javascript or C+. They can just compile into web assembly. And once it's compiled into web assembly, then that wild assembly code can run in our minor nodes, kind of, it's similar to a darker type of concept. It's just the web assembly is a compiled binary and not just run on the server. And we do have SQL database available for them.I think the important thing for developers is to make it as kind of most, as most scene and most transition as possible, so that they don't have to learn all these new concepts and throw away everything they've learned from being developers, using their preferred programming languages.I think that's the best way to get adoption for web three for new developers.

Michael (Celer Network): And not only the programming languages, I know, for developers. It would be much easier for an experienced developer to learn new languages, but to learn a new concept, it's much harder for a traditional developer who used to work on the cloud computing area like mobile application by application. They are probably not very familiar with the concept of decentralized application. For example, solidity and not only a language, but also a way of thinking how you deal with the distribution.So that's why we try to make this stuff much easier for the traditional developer. You don't have to deal with this stage like the all new concepts, you just use as if you're using a single database, you can still use query. But there is no cycle at all. What we did is the distributed cycle in the embedded cycle server, which is running in a decentralized way. The server itself will be synchronized with each other. And the developer doesn't have to care about that. In that case, a regular developer can just use whatever they already know to build an application, but running fully decentralized. You don't have to deal with Amazon at all. So that is what we’re trying to get.

YH CHO (CTO of 3Space): I guess I'll share my 22 cents. So I think for most projects starting from a centralized team to more of a developer community. I think processes and methodologies are very important.So for example, I could review and should be, I guess, not necessarily formal, but the very essential step is like the code reviews. Actually, I used to work on it. One of the code review tools that android and chromium I used, I think they had a pretty good model like the biscuit you have, like used to better patch. And then like PR, you need to get a book,

it's called PR, so a patch and then it likes that everyone can comment on that and share their thoughts. But the area owner will have to give okay to that. So basically after like rounds of comments in changes, you can see how it evolves along with the good history. Right? Actually, we think it is ,technically, very similar to block chain. It's dependable. Only the chain of hash is right. So there's no proof of anything, but it's similar to the abrasion as today, right? But basically, you have this code review process where everyone can comment and share their thoughts, and then someone gives their approval and then the code is merger.So I've yet to seem like, I say like many projects out there. But it just seems like the process isn't that great in a decentralized setting, I guess, because it doesn't sometimes like the original, like a author didn't like document very well and sometimes like the author just likes to give brand eyes to new changes, and sometimes like bad things can just be like slipping, right? So. Yeah, and another thing, I guess, is in a Decentric setting, there should be some kind of incentive, like the code against the genders, right? That the people like preventing the code from rotting. Right? So it's very easy to have a code like rotting if it's not maintained. If it's like, you have a bad coaster opinion and if the review process isn't great and not. Sometimes, it doesn't because everyone prefers working on shipping new features instead of clean-up vote coders, I guess they need encounters. So I guess there should be like, if the project is evolving without a doubt, it should be like a more incentive for people who like to actually clean up the code or actually remove that code.That's my few thoughts.

Kevin: I'm wondering about the developers here in our channel, how many of you are trying to make applications running decentralized?And what is the most difficult part you are currently facing?

YH CHO (CTO of 3Space): Of course, we actually built on, the majority of our sea bridge is built on the Cosmos SDK which is already a very decentralized project we can contribute from, there's contribution for multiple teams. And there's no technical core team. I guess, actually, I think Cosmos has a pretty good model of area ownership. So like one team can, I guess, claim ownership for a while, or actually lead the development of one of the sub modules for each major release, right? And you kind of claim the ownership for a while, and you have to know the code very well, you have to pretty much approve all the under changes happening that recycle. Once the change is effective, there is a dislike formal governance process where all the (03:01:20) can vote if the changes are gonna be on, if the change is gonna be…… I guess it's the same as a pocket on a substrate world where it's even more formalized there. Because all the (03:01:34) rates have to be approved, have to go through the governance process, it's almost like a democratic, which is not necessarily needed, but it's like some good process to have, I guess. So I think like these kinds of models in web three, it will kind of slow things down a little bit, but I think it's better in the long term for a project to actually be developed in a decentralized manner, right? You don't have this like central party controlling like we're gonna release, and we seem like release the drama about like the (03:02:08) where like the develop person they have like too much power, and they can just do whatever they want, and people are turning a bright eye on them, and that's not a deal. So

Ersin Taskin (CTO of Heroes Chaind): I think we can present a good example to your question. We're originally a game studio, and then we added a block chain team to it. But I'm talking about playing to earn simple games, but real games. So real games need a lot of processing power, a lot of rendering, and everything also involved. But also, if you want to make your game block chain enabled like giving the gamers the right to own their game assets independently, trade them freely through NFT technologies, also tokens as your coin in the game are using block chain technologies. You need to convert your game to a block chain enabled game. If the game is a powerful game instead of having the whole game state on a block chain, you keep developing the game, the way you normally keep the game mechanics state on your data basis, which are from central, which might be distributed central systems. Then you take the value state on the block chain, meaning the game at the land, the heroes, the sword, and all these game items that have a value in the game mechanics are in the form of NFTs and the buying and selling of the stuff in the game. It uses a token which is implemented on a block chain. You only take the state regarding who owns how much of those tokens, also, the NFT ownership and everything on the block chain, so you limit the usage of block chain, only to where it is good at value states. And the rest you keep developing on where you own best and the game mechanics run best. So that's the approach we had. And that's the approach most game studios would have, probably, but I'm not talking about play to earn games. I'm talking about playing and earning games like game first for game 5, games or game 520 games. So that would be the general approach to make a great game block chain enabled.

George (TEA): Yeah, I totally agree, that is typical nowadays the Apps which is I usually call it hybrid mode, Hybrid mode means you, like the asset

As you just mentioned, the assets of a game are stored or traded in a block chain, but the other parts, like game servers, are still running in a traditional cloud computing environment. So that's why I call it a hybrid. That's pretty cool, actually, that exactly most of the (03:05:19) running today, we try to improve in another way, which is, it's fully decentralized. That means not only the assets running in a block chain, but also the service, the server, you host your application, your game server, is also decentralized. That means you don't, as a game developer, you don't have to rent a machine or a group of services to run the application, but the miners, they actually use their own machine or rent from a (03:05:54)to host your application. They do that because they can get a share of the game revenue or just get the payment by how much computing resources you need to host a game.So that is actually a new way to decentralize the cloud computing world. In that case, you don't have to rent your service. So some people may ask why not do that? What's wrong with the host (03:05:24) game on Amazon? I think there’s nothing wrong, just like making everything decentralized. Just like Uber, when Uber tried to decentralize the taxi company, they were asked why they wouldn't do that, what's wrong with the taxi company. But you see nowaday most people, at least in San Francisco, I haven't used taxi for many years, if you use Uber only.So that is actually the trend, what I think is the trend, especially not to mention the privacy like the security and also the censorship in US, like it was exactly (03:07:04) doesn't like you. (03:07:06) don't you, you probably will be removed from the social network, you disappeared. So that is why we trying to avoid, we really want every people can hold their own data and get the real freedom in the internet world that what we trying to get

M1: cool, well, in games, the trend you are describing is also there distributing the computational power and hardware resources for running at the distributed game cannot be limited only to Amazon servers, cloud servers that are run by the game studio.There's a trend there.But also one topic is on the physical part of processing, meaning should we distribute rendering of these games? Because these games use 3D models for the visual part of the game. And but at the end of the day, the user, the gamer experiences the visual rollout of the game. So gamers fight in a pvp mode, player versus player mode. We have this server system to client system at the end of the day, no matter what sort of system it's running. So you need to carry information between the central server that is running the world and to clients. So if I click a button, do some action, that action needs to go to the server side that is running the mechanics, the world.And the server should run the response and get after getting the two gamers responses, and how it will evolve and send them to the clients. So that's the traffic in a nutshell. So this traffic can be implemented in many ways. And on the client side, it has to be rendered sort of, so the new version of the images of the game should be seen on their screen. So we need to be able to use the client devices, hardware to the furthest extent, we need to also compute the game mechanics, how the world evolves on a sort of shared environment called the server network system, whatever you call it. And the whole process, especially the server side can be distributed, or you can call it decentralized, if you want to remove the district and also diffuse the authority part of that system. There are also works on distributed rendering, because rendering also takes a lot of effort and also distributed competition of game mechanics as well.

Michael (499Block): All right, thank you guys for being here, and thank you Erson for spending your precious time, sharing your thoughts in our community. And we will make a recap article and will publish it in our communities and social media as well. Anyone have additional things to share, and we are running out the time.

Michael(Celer Network): Now we're always welcoming developers.If you want to check out key project (03:24:04), and if you are developers, we do have a(03:24:10) to airdrop to you, so that will help you get up and running with our project. So, yeah, and thanks a lot for (03:24:17). I appreciate it in our project.

Michael (499Block): Thanks to you. We will have a more web three developer forum, Twitter space in 2022, and stay tuned, we’ll possibly see you again.

Code changing the world has evolved into "code is law" in the blockchain industry, and the importance of developers has been elevated to a new level, especially in such an industry construction period. Giving developers enough attention and support is the attitude we should have in the process of Web 3.0 construction.