J: How’s life in Shanghai right now?
B: It’s winter, so pretty cold—around 2 degrees Celsius. I’m staying warm, though. How’s Bali? I imagine it’s much warmer there.
J: It is! Even though it’s the rainy season, it’s been great. I recently moved into my own place, so I’ve been enjoying my island routine.
B: That sounds amazing. I’ve been thinking about planning a trip there myself. I’d probably pick a quiet part of the island—maybe with access to Muay Thai classes or yoga centers.

J: You mentioned being a photographer before entering Web3. What was that like?
B: I ran my own photography studio, specializing in influencer marketing campaigns for mid-luxury brands like Lululemon. Before that, I was a community manager at WeWork, which helped me build skills in managing people and creative projects. Transitioning to Web3 felt like a natural evolution, combining my creative and community-focused background.

J: That blend of skills seems to have shaped your project, The Gardeners. What inspired you to start it?
B: It came out of a period of personal transformation. In 2023, I hit rock bottom after the FTX collapse. I lost my job, my career, and even experienced personal losses, like the death of a family member and the end of a relationship. It was overwhelming, and for a time, I wanted to leave Web3 entirely.

During that low point, I turned inward. I found solace in spiritual practices—Buddhism, yoga, tarot, and journaling. These tools helped me process my grief, understand my purpose, and reconnect with my passions. A key moment was when a friend gifted me a tarot deck, which became a tool for self-reflection. It opened my eyes to how patterns in my life connected to deeper themes, like finding meaning and letting go of control.

At the same time, I started seeing parallels between the spiritual and the technological—ancient wisdom meeting cutting-edge innovation. I thought, "Why can't Web3 be a space for growth, healing, and community?" That’s when I decided to build something that could combine the spiritual and the modern—the wisdom of the past with the tools of the future. The Gardeners became that vision: a project celebrating personal growth and bridging the gap between consciousness and technology.

J: How does The Gardeners work?
B: The Gardeners is built on the idea of cultivating your inner garden—mind, body, and spirit—through a visual and interactive journey. When you mint one of our NFTs, it begins as a seed. Over time, as you engage with the community and share your personal growth—whether it’s through writing, art, music, or fitness challenges—the seed evolves. By the third or fourth season, it blooms into a full plant or flower, representing the progress you’ve made.

The design isn’t just aesthetic; it’s also deeply functional. We’re using ERC-6551 technology to make the NFTs modular and upgradable. This means your garden can grow beyond plants—maybe you’ll add a pet, a castle, or an entire landscape in the future. We’ve made the system adaptable, so it’s not tied to a single blockchain. This flexibility allows us to integrate with other platforms and expand what’s possible as the project evolves.

Community members are rewarded for their growth with tokens, which can be used to interact with AI-driven personal coaches in areas like fitness, mindfulness, or creativity. We’re also working on integrations with other platforms, like music or art creation tools, to make the growth journey even more personalized. It’s about creating a system where your progress—whether mental, physical, or spiritual—is visually represented, documented on-chain, and celebrated by the community.

J: You’ve mentioned plans for real-life events. What’s on the roadmap?

B: I envision wellness retreats that blend spirituality and community, starting in Bali. Each season could be held in a different location—Europe, Mexico, or wherever the community wants. The focus is on in-person bonding, supported by online tools like personalized AI coaches to guide members on their growth journeys.

J: I’m sure these events will involve music too. I know you DJ as well–what’s in your current rotation?

Javelin Presets: Bridget de' Medici

Playlist · Javelin Presets: Bridget de' Medici · 13 items

https://spotify.com

J: Who is The Gardeners for?
B: The Gardeners is for anyone embracing mindful growth, whether you’re a Web2 or Web3 native. We don’t separate people into categories like "crypto-savvy" or "spiritual beginner" because we believe everyone has something to contribute. That said, the project naturally attracts builders, creators, and collectors—people who value creativity, self-expression, and personal growth.

Inclusivity is a big focus for us. The art we’ve created for the project is gender-neutral, and our initial community has already drawn interest from women, non-binary individuals, and artists. We also see a lot of potential in connecting with DJs, musicians, and other creatives who understand the value of blending self-expression with community building.

What’s most important is that you have a desire to grow—whether that’s by exploring your creative side, working on your mental or physical health, or simply sharing your story. The Gardeners is about celebrating those personal journeys in a way that’s both meaningful and rewarding. We want to build a space where your growth, no matter how small or niche, is recognized and amplified by the community.

J: Let’s wrap up with a quick lightning round—dream place for the first retreat?

B: Bali.

J: Favorite place to unwind?

B: Somewhere by the ocean.

J: If you could DJ anywhere, where would it be?

B: Mars.

J: Dinner with any historical figure?

B: Simone de Beauvoir–her book “The Second Sex” has strongly influenced me around feminism, existentialism, freedom, self identity.

J: Anything you want to plug?

B: Follow The Gardeners and myself on X to stay in the loop.

J: Let’s start at the beginning. How did you go from running events in Shanghai to 88rising and eventually founding Alias?

R: I spent about 13 years in China, where I was deeply involved in underground music culture and entertainment. At one point, I ran an underground club called Arkham and a promotions company called STD, where we’ve booked shows like Squarepusher, Boys Noize and Flying Lotus.

Arkham 3 Year Anniversary Recap

I also ran a cocktail lounge where people could play video games called Arcade. My entire life for a long time was just partying. It was a professional job. But when I turned 30 I started to realize that it’s not a life that I wanted to continue sustaining. It just felt like I was burning the candle at both ends.

Around that time, I met the founder of 88rising. It was still a small media company back then, but they had big plans to expand into Asia. We went on to dominate Asian entertainment/youth culture, headline Coachella, work with top brands and even produce the soundtrack for Marvel’s Shang-chi film. I started as a consultant, then became their first hire in Shanghai, expanding the company as a creative director and general manager. By 2019, I felt my time in China had run its course. I wanted to continue supporting Asian youth culture but with a focus on where technology was taking entertainment.

That led to creating a virtual talent agency called Avastar. We managed virtual influencers and experimented with releasing music and content for non-human characters with various top brands like Adidas, Lane Crawford and Nylon .One of our virtual singers, Maie, became the face of Puma in China. But the production overheads were massive. Making a single piece of Instagram content could take days, and it just wasn’t scalable. That’s when I started thinking about how to make virtual content creation more accessible, which became the foundation for Alias.

J: What problem does Alias aim to solve?

R: Alias was born out of the challenge of making virtual content creation easier and more scalable. Traditional VTubing and virtual influencer setups required high production costs and technical expertise. With Alias, we’re building tools that make it simple for anyone to create, customize, and interact with 3D avatars. It’s about democratizing access to the next generation of content creation.

J: Where do you see the most potential for content created by AI or virtual characters in media? What types of media might not be engaging today but could become a normal part of our daily consumption in 10 to 20 years?

R: I think memes are where it starts. They’re short, easy to consume, and resonate with people instantly. That opens the door to experimenting with longer-form content, like dynamic live streams or interactive videos. Imagine a YouTube video where you can interact with the characters to personalize the experience. That’s where I see this technology heading.

There’s so much experimentation happening across different silos—whether it’s generative video tools like Runway or platforms generating music or acapellas. What’s really exciting is how these tools are beginning to intersect. In the future, I think we’ll see AI agents that can seamlessly shift between formats, creating interactive content that feels truly personalized.

J: How does Blockrot fit into this vision?

R: Blockrot is a showcase of Alias’s technology paired with our custom AI model. He’s a 24/7 interactive virtual live streamer who plays Minecraft and can connect with his onchain data. Blockrot’s first month was all about soaking up feedback from the memecoin and AI agent communities. Now, we’re refining his capabilities to grow his influence and enhance the technology.

We’re testing gladiator battles in Minecraft, where Blockrot can fight other AI agents, collect loot, level up, and score points. It’s exciting because it combines dynamic gameplay with interactive content. Beyond that, we’re exploring ways for Blockrot to create more types of content, including video-on-demand, to make the experience more engaging and versatile.

J: When I log on to Twitter, I feel like a lot of people are kind of excited about this AI wave of content creators. But when I log on to Instagram and I check out some accounts that I follow that relate to music or art, people are very skeptical of AI-generated content. What do you think about that difference?

R: Totally, I’ve noticed that too. On platforms like Twitter, there’s this excitement about experimenting with AI content, especially in Web3 communities where it feels raw and underground. Instagram, though, is much more visual and personal. People are skeptical of content that feels overly automated or fake.

I think it’s about how relatable the content feels. If it’s purely generative, it risks becoming noise. That’s why I believe in keeping a human touch in everything we do. It’s about making these agents entertaining and relatable without crossing into territory that feels deceptive or uncanny.

J: What do you think is the role of human creators versus AI creators in this future that you’re building?

R: It has to be a collaboration. I use generative AI tools like Midjourney for concepting and moodboards, but it’s not something I would share publicly to claim as my own. AI can enhance creativity, but it’s the human element that makes things relatable and meaningful. Without that, it just becomes noise. The goal should be to use AI to amplify creativity, not replace it.

J: Which types of audience do you think have been most receptive to projects like Blockrot?

R: Definitely the memecoin crowd. Right now, some people care more about the memecoin than the character itself or even the technology. It’s something we understood going in, but balancing those interests with our vision for Blockrot as an engaging virtual character is key.

Web3 feels like a public forum, almost like 4chan, where raw experimentation and discourse thrives. A lot of ideas emerge in this space before they hit the mainstream. We’re trying to create agents that are entertaining and relatable, not just bots you interact with once and forget. 

J: Time for the lightning round—what’s the best live performance you’ve ever witnessed?

R: LFO (Mark Bell) on Warp Records. I saw him at Electraglide in Makuhari Messe (Japan) in 2003. It was life-changing—the sounds, the visuals, everything. He was a close collaborator with Björk, and that show left a huge impression on me (we found a super old video of the rave, skip to 54min for LFO: https://archive.org/details/electraglide-tokyo-2003).

J: Favorite spot for a holiday?

R: Thailand, Bali, New Zealand, and Lisbon—they all have their own magic.

J: One app you can’t live without?

R: ChatGPT. It’s great for organizing words when I’m all over the place.

J: Anything you want to plug?

R: Definitely check out Alias and Blockrot. The ticker is $BROT on Solana if anyone wants to support!

J: Hey Sean, thanks for joining me. Let’s start at the beginning—how did your journey as a creative and DJ lead to founding ORIGIN STØRIES?
S: Post-pandemic, the creative industries were really exposed for their unsustainability. As an artist, I’d been working enough to understand the challenges of being independent—constantly having to churn out visual content, staying visible on social media, and balancing the cost of creating. It was a lot. When AI became more accessible, I realized it could solve some of these issues, not just in storytelling but in how we communicate as creators. Whether it’s pre-production or creating content, there’s potential for AI to empower artists and generate new economies in vulnerable sectors like music, art, and theater. That’s where the idea for ORIGIN STØRIES came from—a way to upskill professional creatives and help them navigate these changes.

J: So, what is ORIGIN STØRIES in a nutshell?
S: It’s a creative tech studio that focuses on co-created experiences and custom-generation tools. Right now, we’re building tools to make visual narratives more accessible and interactive. The idea is to bring audiences into the creative process. For example, if you attend a music event, instead of just watching, you could use our tools to remix visuals tied to the event’s theme. We’re also exploring co-creation in theater, where audiences contribute to the narrative after a performance, taking a piece of the story home with them.

J: That’s fascinating. How does co-creation actually work in practice?
S: It can take many forms. For music events, we might create a visual identity in collaboration with the artist or brand, then build a mobile app or browser-based tool where the audience can interact with those visuals. For theater, we’re testing a project in Warsaw where the audience can co-create elements inspired by the performance, like a digital or physical takeaway that reflects their experience. It’s all about creating a dialogue between creators and audiences while making the tools accessible to as many people as possible.

J: Let’s talk about AI. What trends in this space are you most excited about?
S: Definitely agentic workflows—AI agents designed to handle specific creative tasks. For example, curatorial agents that can organize ideas or help DJs with crate-digging based on their tastes. Another trend I’m into is slow AI, which emphasizes quality over speed. There’s been a shift from “AI slop,” where it was all about pumping out content, to a more intentional approach. People are starting to value craftsmanship again, and I think that’s a really positive direction.

J: You mentioned curatorial agents. What’s the role of humans versus AI in creative workflows?
S: Humans provide the nuance, taste, and storytelling frameworks that AI can’t replicate. Machines can process data and identify patterns, but they don’t have the lived experiences or emotional depth that we bring to art. That said, AI can handle repetitive tasks and make workflows more efficient. For example, if I’m working on a visual project, AI can help with iterations or prototypes, freeing me up to focus on the creative direction. It’s about collaboration, not replacement.

J: What about ORIGIN STØRIES? Any exciting projects you’re working on now?
S: One project I’m really excited about is an AI-powered writer’s room, where creators can interact with a custom language model trained in their tone and style. It’s like having a virtual showrunner to guide the process and give feedback. We’re also working on co-creation tools for  dance music events, where attendees can design visuals tied to their tickets. It’s a small but meaningful way to make the audience part of the storytelling experience.

J: On the topic of music and storytelling, how do you see AI influencing the creative process in music?
S: AI has the potential to streamline tedious tasks like crate-digging or organizing stems. Imagine training an AI to understand your taste as a DJ and surface tracks you’d actually play. It’s not about replacing creativity but enhancing it by automating the things that take up time but don’t require your full creative energy. There’s also potential for AI to help with more collaborative efforts, like building interactive experiences at live events. It’s about creating tools that empower, not overshadow, the artist.

J: Speaking of music—I'd love to hear what’s in your current rotation.

S: Word.

Javelin Presents: Sean Bradford

Playlist · Javelin Presents: Sean Bradford · 26 items

https://spotify.com

J: Let’s wrap up with a quick lightning round. Best live performance you’ve ever seen?
S: Janelle Monáe at Joe’s Pub in New York. It was such an intimate, transformative show—she completely took over the space. I only caught 30 minutes of it because I was doing my own show nearby. It was a two-show day, and I had this very heavy role in an off-Broadway production. I spent the whole afternoon in this intense headspace, then ran over to Joe’s Pub, and it was like stepping into another world. The energy, the masks, how she took over the space—it was electric. I went back to my show after that and thought, “No, this is it. I want to do music.” Theater just didn’t feel the same after that moment.

J: If you could collaborate with any artist, dead or alive, who would it be?
S: Salvador Dalí. I love surrealism, and his way of seeing the world was so unique. Plus, his quote “I don’t do drugs. I am drugs” is iconic.

J: One piece of tech you can’t live without?
S: My smartphone. I hate it, but I can’t live without it.

J: What’s next for ORIGIN STØRIES, and where can people follow your work?
S: We’re developing new case studies and tools that push the boundaries of co-creation and AI. The road feels wide open right now, and I’m excited to see where it leads. You can follow us on Twitter, Instagram, Warpcast and Lens.

J: You’re someone who wears many hats—DJ, public speaker, advisor, curator, and more. Where did it all begin, and what's the connective tissue that ties all these pursuits together?

E: It’s always been about making things better. When I didn’t like the music at parties, I became a DJ. When I thought rappers were wack, I’d go to open mics and train myself to rap better so I could hold the torch to whatever they were doing. It’s always been about progress and leaving things better than I found them. In the world of emerging tech and innovation, there’s this “adapt or die” mentality that keeps everything fresh and exciting. I’ve been in this space since 2016, coming from a background in art, music, fashion, and culture. I used to throw massive raves and warehouse parties, helping sustain LA’s underground scene. So, getting into crypto and Web3 felt like a natural fit, aligning with my role as a purveyor of culture and always staying ahead of the curve.

J: What was the aha moment for you to start New Friendship Tech? When did you realize this is something that needed to exist?

E: The idea really clicked for me when I noticed the negative stigmas surrounding the term NFT. People would ask, “What even is that?” and it always had this confusing, off-putting vibe. At the end of the day, NFTs are just a technology that’s helping create new friendships, new cultures, and new communities. Social media used to connect people, but now it often pushes us apart. The only way to beat those isolating algorithms is through real-life experiences. Without tech-driven connections, new friendships don’t form, and everything starts to fall apart. We’re stronger together, and no one really does it alone. That’s why New Friendship Tech felt like a necessary piece to the puzzle. Everything we do is about progress and making things better than they already are. All our events are free, with free entry, free drinks, and free food. We make sure every lineup has at least two women, and the vibe is always inclusive and diverse. It’s about balancing Web2 and Web3—so everyone feels welcome in the environments we curate worldwide.

J: So your events are free–how do you define success for New Friendship Tech and measure it?

E: To me, a successful event means providing six things: opportunities to meet new people, learn or see something new, and have fun doing it. Plus, people need to feel seen, heard, and safe. If you come to one of our events, you shouldn’t have to worry about security issues or shady vibes. You know the music will be on point and that you’re either going to hear what you love or discover your new favorite artist. And when you speak, people actually listen—they’re not just waiting for their turn to talk. We’re flipping the narrative that “free” equals low quality. Our events are about proving that you can have a premium experience without a price tag. The core values of New Friendship Tech are about redistributing wealth and democratizing information on a large scale. Knowledge should be accessible, not hidden behind paywalls or expensive degrees. Everyone deserves to win and grow together.

J: You emphasize the importance of redistributing wealth. How do you put that into action for your community?

E: We do it through things like competitions, hackathons, job fairs, bounties, and turning social currency into real equity. Think about big festivals like Coachella or EDC—when you leave, you’re lucky if you come away with a wristband or some merch, but mostly it’s just memories. The event takes your money and gives you a good time, but it’s still an extractive model. I wanted to flip that. At our events, we value people for who they are—their knowledge, experience, and style. We require wallet addresses from attendees, and if they don’t have one, we help set them up. Then we take a portion of our profits and redistribute it back to them. Even though the events are free, they’re still profitable, and since I’m bootstrapped with no outside investors, I get to decide how to use those profits. Back in 2020, I tested this model at the Ace Theater in LA, giving back $250,000 to attendees. It worked beautifully. I think Fortune 500 companies could learn from this and start investing directly in the people who make their businesses run.

J: Impressive. I noticed that New Friendship Tech has collaborated with some huge names like Sotheby’s, Netflix, and Hennessy. How do you make these partnerships happen?

E: It’s all about building a solid foundation and having a proven track record. I’ve onboarded and educated more people in Web3 than almost anyone I know. I’ve been part of countless projects in art, music, fashion, and culture, and I’ve seen what works and what doesn’t. Maintaining my integrity and staying true to my values is what keeps the trust alive. So when these big brands get a message from me, they see that I’ve been featured in Rolling Stone, GQ, Decrypt, and Bloomberg. They can look me up and see I’ve been recognized as an expert in the space. I’ve been on the homepage of OpenSea with my art and collaborated with Keith Haring’s Estate at Sotheby’s. It’s hard to say no to someone who’s consistently proven themselves. I leverage all of that to open doors for future projects.

J: It’s clear you know how to create impactful events. What I see a lot, especially at these larger crypto conferences is that a lot of companies have like crazy budgets to create cool events. They rent out the fanciest venues but then they just fail gloriously in creating a dope event. They probably want to generate some brand awareness but in reality they're just burning VC money to look cool and kind of failing at that. What’s your take on that?

E: It blows my mind to see companies throw half a million dollars at a party that barely makes a splash. If that money was in my hands, I’d know how to channel it properly to create something lasting with real ROI. I’ve broken the internet a few times, driving virality for people like Taylor Swift, Diplo, Katy Perry, and A$AP Rocky. I think outside the box, using guerrilla tactics like drone activations with QR codes, skywriting, and street teams. It’s about making people feel like they want to be there. Free entry, amazing artists, great food and drinks—there’s no reason not to come. The event practically promotes itself when everything comes together seamlessly.

J: Education is a big focus for you. Do you think it’s key to mass adoption?

E: Education is everything. Everyone learns differently, and I get that. If someone’s explaining Web3 with a bunch of jargon, it’s like a word salad—it just doesn’t stick. It shuts people out, and they lose interest. That’s why our events are 60% Web2 and 40% Web3. I moderate panels and make sure the conversation is approachable and engaging. We also use AI to translate and transcribe everything in over 200 languages, publishing it on the blockchain so it stays intact and accessible forever. It’s about making sure the message isn’t lost or distorted over time.

J: When you say you publish content to the blockchain first, what do you mean exactly? Which platforms do you use? How does that post-event production go?

E: We edit the content using tools like Final Cut Pro or Premiere, then run it through AI for accurate transcription and translation. Once it’s ready, we publish it to platforms like IPFS, Solana, Ethereum, or whatever chain fits best. We can also token gate it if needed. It’s about making the content durable and shareable, giving it a second or third life on platforms like Mastodon, Blue Sky, and Farcaster. I’m even working on scaling this approach for larger audiences at conferences.

J: From a marketing or community building perspective, what’s the key to filling up the room?

E: It’s all about a mix of traditional and unconventional marketing. We use mailing lists and SMS for retention, but we also do guerrilla marketing—like pasting posters, taking over billboards, and flying drones with QR codes. I’m all about breaking the mold. And with a strong community on Telegram, WhatsApp, and Twitter, we’ve got a solid base to spread the word. It’s about making sure people want to be there and know it’ll be worth their time.

J: Let’s wrap up with a lightning round. Favorite DJ gig?

E: Rare Diablo and A-Trak at The Factory off of Alameda Street in Downtown LA.

J: A city that surprised you the most?

E: It’s a tie between Seoul, Tokyo, and Singapore. I fall in love with them every time I visit.

J: Craziest venue you’ve hosted an event at?

E: A rave under the American Apparel warehouses in LA—it looked like a scene out of Dune or Mad Max, a sandy, pillar filled dystopian underground basement..

J: Anything you want to plug?

E: Definitely check out New Friendship Tech. And if anyone has opportunities or projects they want me to be part of, my door is always open and the best way to reach me is on Instagram, 𝕏, or through my website. Hit me up!

M: Warsaw, Poland. This is where I live most of the time.

J: Cool. I've been there once as a kid. My dad has a business in glasswork and ceramics, and we visited Bialystok and Warsaw. It was around the time of Euro 2012. I was a 12-year old kid but the city felt great, from what I can remember.

M: Yeah, that was a really fun time. The Euros were huge here.

J: It was hosted in Poland and Ukraine, right?

M: Yes! There was a famous match between Italy and Germany in that tournament. Everyone thought Germany would win, but then Balotelli scored two goals, and one of those became a meme. You know, the one where he’s standing there flexing. I watched it live in the stadium!

J: Let’s chat about Kiwi. I’ve been using it for a while, and it’s one of those apps I check daily for interesting things to share with my team. Kiwi often gets compared to the Hacker News of crypto. When did you realize this platform needed to exist?

M: It’s a funny story. When I got into crypto, I knew I wanted to build something, but I didn’t know what. So I started a podcast, thinking that talking to founders would inspire me. The podcast, Web3 Talks, did well. I interviewed founders from Farcaster, Zora, Gnosis, WalletConnect, and others. But as I tried to grow the podcast, I struggled with distribution. Twitter didn’t like links, sharing links on Discords and Telegram chats felt spammy, and there wasn’t a place to share quality content where it would be seen. That’s when I thought, 'Hacker News for crypto would be great.' Around the same time, Tim, who’s now my co-founder, launched a very basic MVP of a crypto version of Hacker News. To submit a link, you had to download a GitHub repo and use the command line interface. I thought it was cool and asked Tim how to add my podcast. From there, I started helping him, and eventually, we decided to build it together full-time.

J: So, both you and Tim were scratching your own itches—finding a way to distribute your podcast and Tim wanting a space that didn’t reject crypto like Hacker News.

M: Exactly. Tim had posted his non-crypto blog posts on Hacker News and got a lot of traffic (and business) thanks to that. But when he posted crypto-related links, the Hacker News team either banned or ignored them. He was fed up and wanted a decentralized version where links couldn’t be censored. That’s how Kiwi came to be. We store all the links on a protocol, so different apps can interact with it, just like how NFTs on Ethereum can be accessed through OpenSea, Blur, or Magic Eden. If someone doesn’t like Kiwi’s moderation, they can create their own app with different moderation rules but still access the same links.

J: That’s a unique approach. I also love the story behind the name ‘Kiwi.’ Something about eating kiwis with the skin on, right?

M: Yeah! A friend named Kenny posted a picture of himself eating a kiwi with the skin on, and Tim reacted by saying “Vitalik, you should ban him from Ethereum for this” Vitalik chimed in, saying he eats oranges the same way. It became this meme, and now we even have a website about the ‘right’ way to eat kiwi. It’s a funny story that stuck with us.

J: I ship a lot of content for various projects and the hardest part is always: distribution. How does Kiwi help content creators get their work seen?

M: Great question. The main issue with social media is that people typically want to stay on the platform. In other words, if you post your article on Twitter, you might get 50 likes but only three clicks. People like the headline, not the content, and it’s hard to make them read your longer posts. If you don’t want to deal with that, you have to keep repurposing the content for different platforms—threads for Twitter, short summaries for Discord, Telegram, etc. No author wakes up thinking, “I’d love to spend some time repurposing my content so that people can actually read.”

Kiwi is different. We’re focused on quality and real readers, not quantity and likes. So on Kiwi you won’t get 10,000 views, but you might reach the right people—the power users in crypto, the ones who will ask insightful questions and share them with influential people. And it gets even better when we run writing contests since our authors and partners help us reach more readers - in the last contest we did with Lens, some of the essays were read by Vitalik, Stani, and Alex from zkSync.

J: So, it’s more about hitting the right audience than casting a wide net. How do you ensure that?

M: A few things help. First, our content is already quite niche, so it filters out people who aren’t into advanced crypto topics. Second, we enforce content quality guidelines, so if someone tries to post something off-topic, we handle it. Third, you need an NFT to post links on Kiwi, which acts as a filter. It’s on Optimism mainnet, where there are fewer users who just started their crypto journey than for example on  Base. Lastly, our branding is pretty low-key, which appeals to devs and those looking for signal over noise. It’s all about building a quality-first community.

J: What role do Kiwi’s curators play in that community?

M: Curators are the heartbeat of Kiwi. Just like on Instagram, your ‘proof of work’ is sharing pictures, and on Twitter, it’s sharing clever tweets, on Kiwi their ‘proof of work’ is sharing interesting crypto links. And why do curators actually do it? We spoke with dozens of them, and many treat it as a way to express themselves and connect with like-minded people. If they share, for example, essays on tokenomics, they are more likely to meet other tokenomics fans and have an interesting discussion. Our curators also earn karma points for upvotes, and we’ve even shared revenue from new mints with them. These revenue numbers aren’t high, so it’s more of a tip than the financial incentivization we see in the space. We’re still iterating on how to reward curators in this ‘curator economy,’ but the goal is to give them meaningful recognition for their work.

J: Talking about curating — a recurring thing we do in these interviews is sharing music — what's in your current rotation?

Javelin Presents: Maciej Budkowski

Playlist · Javelin Presents: Maciej Budkowski · 9 items

https://spotify.com

J: Back to Kiwi, I like how you’ve mentioned karma as a reward system. It feels novel. Do you think curators could be rewarded in other ways too?

M: Absolutely. We’re seeing projects like Phaver, where you get rewarded for being early to like a post that goes viral. Zora’s model of sharing NFT sale revenue is also interesting. The challenge is making sure the incentives are genuine—avoiding the issue of people promoting things just for money. But I do believe curators should at least earn pocket money for their work. The key is to balance the money while maintaining integrity.

J: What about the writing contests you’ve run with Lens and Nouns? What have you learned from them?

M: We learned that we were doing them too cheaply, haha. It’s only a half-joke because, in crypto, reaching the right people is hard. What we have found so far is that writing contests have been much more effective for our partners than, for example, paying one blogger to write about them. Plus, it’s more genuine - in the contests, writers are incentivized to share critical essays, not just praise. Our last contest with Lens had 25 submissions, and those writers’ audiences got exposed to Kiwi and Lens as well. It’s a much more authentic way to distribute information.

J: That sounds like a new way of doing marketing. Have these contests become a core part of your strategy?

M: Yes, I think we’ve invented a new marketing tool in crypto—contests that generate thoughtful, genuine content. I think it’s a breath of fresh air in sometimes KOL-dominated space.

J: Are there any other communities, online or offline, that inspire your work with Kiwi?

M: Definitely. There’s a community called Crypto Testers that’s full of DeFi veterans. I’m not a DeFi guy, but I appreciate the quality of conversations there. Javelin is another community I love, and Farcaster, which is a much bigger one, of course.

Outside of crypto, I’ve been part of some really well-organized IRL communities— friends groups that host regular events, trips, and presentations. That’s something that inspires me to experiment with our Kiwi community. We already host meetups at conferences - we had ones in Berlin, Paris, Brussels, Warsaw and Istanbul - and we think that the real-life element is crucial for building a strong community.

J: Cool! I’ll make sure to be there for the next one in Bangkok.

J: I usually end these interviews with a quick lightning round. So, first up: what’s the city with the best food?

M: New York.

J: Best meme template you’ve seen recently?

M: It’s an old one but I love the ‘flex tape’ meme, where the guy slaps tape over a leaking water tank. It’s such a perfect metaphor for crypto—like trying to fix big issues with quick solutions like airdrops or tokens.

J: Too real. What’s your favorite way to unwind after a long day?

M: I love playing RPG games if I have the time. If not, I listen to audiobooks—usually fiction or historical fiction.

J: Any book recommendations?

M: The Fall of Giants by Ken Follett. It’s an amazing historical novel about World War I, and everything is historically accurate, down to exact conversations of historical characters. So if Winston Churchill says something in a book, he probably actually said that to someone at this point in time. You get to learn a lot while enjoying a great story.

J: That sounds awesome. Anything you want to plug?

M: I’d say check out Kiwi News, of course. You can also explore our wiki, which tells a bigger story. And if you’re into deep conversations with founders, my old podcast Web3 Talks is still up.

J: Before sitting down we briefly chatted about music. What kind of music are you into?

D: I’m into all sorts. The music I make leans towards soft rock, but I also love some niche subgenres like sophistipop. There's a whole world for that kind of thing. I’m really into a lot of seventies stuff—big Steely Dan fan. And I love soul too. Honestly, a bit of everything.

David Schaefer 🌋 JAVELIN ON AIR 006

Playlist · David Schaefer 🌋 JAVELIN ON AIR 006 · 21 items

https://spotify.com

J: And you make music yourself as well?

D: Yeah, I’ve been involved in the LA music scene for a long time. I haven’t released much, but I’ve got a few records recorded. I’ll be releasing the one I’m working on now soon.

J: Is music what led you into the on-chain world?

D: Not exactly, but it definitely played a part. I was trying to figure out how to fund this expensive album I wanted to make—something in a ‘70s hi-fi mold—but that’s not what labels are after these days. So, I got into this space by trying to figure out how to make money. I’d been playing online poker and met some people in that world who led me to NFTs. This was in 2021.

I was lucky to get in during a hot streak and made enough to record an album. But then the engineer I work with got Covid, and he was booked for months after that. So, I reached out to my friend Sean Solomon. We knew each other from the LA music scene—he played in bands I used to gig with. But Sean's also an animator, and at the time, he had a show in development with HBO Max. The process was moving slowly, so I convinced him to launch an NFT collection—and that became Everybodys.

D: This was my first step into Web3 as a founder. I used the network I’d built from trading to grow the initial community and spent about seven or eight months figuring it all out in real time. Part of that came from being on the other side of things as a trader, and part of it was using what I knew about outreach and partnerships from the music world.

We ended up doing 70 or 80 partnerships with smaller communities, and then landed a big one with OpenSea. We became one of their first featured mints, part of their primary drops. That was really the start of my professional journey onchain. There’s been some cool stuff with the project post-mint, but my main role was getting it off the ground and handling the go-to-market strategy. It’s more of an art-focused project, so it’s not one of those ongoing utility things—it’s more of a collectible. Sean and I still collaborate on it occasionally.

J: So from Everybodys you naturally moved into the idea of a character builder with Mintbash? How did that evolve?

D: We actually considered making Everybodys like that from the start. We were curious about experimenting with metadata, since it was primarily a collectibles project. We wanted to make it more fun to own and interact with. One thing we did was create an automated process for large-scale animated metadata updates.

We thought it was fun and leaned into those interactive elements. Part of my thinking was that we’re past the initial speculative frenzy in the NFT space. Post-Blur, it’s less about flipping rare items and more about self-expression. Especially now, with the role NFTs play in meme coin subculture—where the liquidity and activity are—it's more about showing off your personality.

I’ve always been into things like Allstarz and the avant-garde NFT scene on Solana, where it’s more about unique layers and creative elements. I wanted to explore those kinds of ideas.

J: Definitely. It reminds me of the Ralph Lauren’s Grand Leisurist drop with Poolsuite. They had a similar mechanic where you could customize and mint your own. 

When I first saw Allstarz, I think it was Raihan from FWB who had one as his PFP. I wanted to get one for myself and I found out they had a separate collection with all handmade designs for the OG Allstarz community. 

D: Yeah, those were cool. They were one of the first collections to mint honoraries like that.. I ended up befriending some of the creators through FWB and even hung out with Golira at FEST.

J: FWB seems to be a common thread for both of us. A lot of the community is LA-based. Before web3, you were active in the LA music scene. How does the web3 scene in LA compare for creatives like you? Is it as vibrant?

D: There's a lot happening here, and plenty of people to collaborate with. When I first got into web3, I didn’t realize there were others with similar subcultural interests. I came into it through gambling and game theory, not the creative side, so it was a pleasant surprise to meet other artists and musicians in the space. A lot of people who were hesitant to experiment early on have since reached out to me to discuss their own projects.

I think web3 appeals to people, especially given the way careers work today. You can gain expertise just by experimenting and talking to others. I found people to be very open to cold outreach, which was refreshing—there’s not a huge gap in seniority, so people are approachable and interested in collaboration. There's growing overlap between the music and art community I came from and the web3 space.

J: Yes. A lot of the skills you learn as a recording artist or when organizing music events—like collaborating with other creatives and brands—are quite similar to my work in web3.

D: It’s interesting because many strategies that didn’t gain traction in the music world actually work well in web3. The space is less saturated, with fewer established institutions. I appreciated how grassroots it felt, like when a simple group chat evolves into something bigger. The Internet’s ability to facilitate coordination and collaboration seamlessly is really intriguing to me.

Even now, with the music I'm working on, I have several remote collaborators, which I wouldn’t have considered before entering this space. It’s amazing to see how people who have never met can achieve great things together online.

J: I like to end these interviews with a quick lightning round of questions—just answer without overthinking. What’s the best DJ, mix, or artist performance you’ve ever witnessed?

D: I saw the Dirty Projectors at the Wiltern in LA when I was younger, after the release of Beta Orca, and that was pretty amazing.

J: If you weren't in LA, where would you live?

D: Probably New York. A bit of a boring answer, but a lot of my friends are there.

J: Are you a morning person or a night owl?

D: Definitely a night owl.

J: What’s your favorite cuisine?

D: Tough one. I love Chinese food.

J: Anything you want to shout out?

D: Check out Mintbash, Wandbot and Purity Finance.

J: Let me kick in the door. How does everwave work?

A: everwave is conceived as a DAO. We originally built the product with the idea in mind that the product itself should belong to the people who create the value on the product.

When you arrive on Everwave, the app interface is an audio player, and you play the ‘wave’. The wave is a creative concept that we use. You play the wave and you listen to the music that's been produced on the wave. If you feel inspired by what you're listening, you can decide to participate into the wave.

A wave starts with an original musical idea. Imagine you’re in a studio and you have two or three musicians that start to jam together and they don't know really where that's going, but they have a motif and they're jamming around that motif. This is track one of the wave, and people can add new elements to the wave. Theoretically, there’s an infinite feedback loop between musicians and producers who grow the wave. At some point, we ask our community, are you okay with the wave? If yes, we stop the wave and ask our community to choose for their favorite versions which will be released on DSPs and minted as NFTs on our marketplace.

What’s next is we invite well-respected artists to kickstart a new wave. So, for instance, with a jazzy piece, imagine if we invite Herbie Hancock to kickstart a new wave with piano solo. That would be an amazing opportunity for every jazz musician in the world to be able to create music with Herbie Hancock.

J: What are the main benefits for musicians to use everwave?

A: Keep in mind, everwave isn’t meant to replace the traditional way that musicians make music nowadays. It's a new space for them to explore and collaborate. When you're a musician, you're going to come and you're going to drop your elements, but you have no idea how they're going to be used in the future. This unexpected feeling is very interesting for musicians because you kind of have to let go of the creative direction, but it gives ways to really super beautiful results down the line.

On the revenue side of things, I would say it's less important in the sense that we're not really revolutionizing the way the revenue is distributed. The main revenue source for music is still DSPs and licensing. So it’s traditional label work, and on top of that we have the NFT offering. 90% of the revenue goes back to the creators and 10% goes back to the DAO treasury which is controlled by contributors.

J: And then next to all of this, you are also still running Jazzy Coucous.

A: Still working on it. Actually, I've been working with this artist from Taiwan called Zy The Way. They're preparing an album, which we’ll release next year. They're 60–70% done with the tracks. I've been working with Mark de Clive-Lowe and DJ Spinna to do remixes of two tracks that we picked up from the album. And we're going to do a limited edition EP, trying to achieve that handmade feeling, maybe add silk printing. We’ll release it right before dropping the album. It’s very exciting because their quality of songwriting and production is really good.

J: Oh man, to this day I still play Ron Trent’s remix of the Zy The Way record, which you gave me when we met at the FWB x everwave event in Paris. Great memories, great music. What’s in your current rotation?

Javelin Presents: Alixkun

Playlist · Javelin Presents: Alixkun · 12 items

https://spotify.com

J: You've been around in the music scene quite long. What's your favorite memory from a music experience?

It was in 2009, I think I went to that festival in Japan called Metamorphose, and I saw a live DJ set from Nujabes. It was like one year before he died. And he was with the sax player that he often plays with called Hiroto Uyama. And that was already insane. But then he went into house, and some Detroit house and techno classics, like Hi-Tech Jazz. I was like, what the fuck? This is too good. I almost cried. It completely blew my mind.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWue4E4xRmY

Any things you're planning on seeing in the coming period?

I just bought a ticket, something I do very rarely, but when I really want to see something, sometimes I just bought a ticket for myself. And I go to the show by myself. I'm going to see Japanese artist called Akiko Yano. She plays piano. And she was kind of like the unofficial fourth member of Yellow Music Orchestra. There's also a video where YMO plays at Soul Train in the US, in the early 80s, and she’s there. You can find it on YouTube somewhere.

J: Yeah, fuck it. I do that sometimes as well. I'm one of the only guys in my friend group that's into old school, grimey Hip-Hop. And then Conway the Machine came to Amsterdam, but nobody from my friends knew who he was. So I just went by myself and actually, it's nice to just go on your own. You can come and go, whenever you want, and kind of force yourself to socialize with strangers that are into the same thing.

A: Exactly. There's positive aspects to going to a live event by yourself. I’m really looking forward. Will send a video in the Javelin Telegram when I’m there.

J: Tell me more about your background.

S: I studied philosophy and political science back in the days. During my studies I stumbled upon crypto. This is almost a decade ago to the day and have worked for crypto companies ever since. I worked at a Scandinavian Bitcoin broker called Safello, which IPO’d. In the meantime I founded a company called Bitstraat. We were producing POS terminals to allow Bitcoin payments in brick-and-mortar shops. And that didn't fly at all. And we knew it, but we still had fun and learned a lot.

J: How did you end up at OPEN?

S: Through Bitstraat, I got to know Kasper Keunen (blockchain developer at OPEN) who was writing a whitepaper for GET Protocol (now OPEN Ticketing), and I joined the team as a result. The vision was to introduce a blockchain based ticketing standard. A protocol for normal events made sense, but we needed to prove the concept to get meaningful clients.

So we built our own ticketing system called GUTS Tickets, which is now a successful ticketing company in the Dutch ticketing space. We're doing all kinds of events such as festivals, concerts, livestream shows, theaters, museums, etc. From small events to stadium size.

We also have a white label product which allows partners to basically utilize the very same products as we have at GUTS, but then under their own branding. Additionally, there’s our Digital Twin product with which we just serviced the Dutch F1 Grand Prix and got all attendees a collectible ticket.

Our end game however, has always been and still is becoming the onchain standard for tickets.

https://x.com/SanderRegtuijt/status/1621620795645501440?s=20

J: What’s your role like?

S: I was one of the first employees and rolled in as a Business Developer. I didn't even know what it was (it’s still a vague role). But what I do on a day-to-day basis is maintaining contact with larger clients or the largest potential leads, learn from clients and strategize product strategy, and initiate meaningful products being built, Web2 and Web3. A lot of our clients aren’t interested in crypto whatsoever, but they do like some features that we offer that are on Web3 reels, but they don’t know about it. This is perfect in my opinion.

And recently, together with one of the founders, I was tasked with getting a raise finalized. We announced our $4.5M raise last Summer.

J: What are the benefits of having a Web2 company under one umbrella with your Web3 protocol?

S: The first possibility is staying alive. It might be the sole reason we’re still here. As a business developer, I've been monitoring the onchain ticketing space and there have been around 200 onchain ticketing partners companies. Now, most of them started as protocol, and that's a hard sell. No ticketing system in its right mind will trust you to do anything onchain with them. We’re processing tens of millions of funds for our clients and most important to them is proven stability, stability and stability.

That’s why we had to prove the use-case ourselves and starting eating our own dog food with GUTS. We’re the only one that have both a top-down as well as bottom-up approach. We’re making money through GUTS Tickets and are actually selling tickets which enables us to learn how ticketing works and build the protocol based on that.

J: How do you, as a startup, disrupt a monopoly like Ticketmaster and Live Nation?

S: The best way is literally trying to convince individual artists. We literally knocked on the doors of artists that were known in the Dutch ticketing space and publicly expressed their dissatisfaction with secondary ticketing. Some of them were very enthusiastic about it and said, okay, here's the phone number from my manager. Let’s figure it out.

That's how we got our first clients, which we are still very grateful for because they have allowed us to learn a lot about ticketing. And if these artists are big enough they have the decision power to say no, we’re going to do it this way. It takes balls to pioneer, but we prove day in day out the current status quo doesn’t need to be. Applying this lingchi - a death by a thousands cuts - strategy, is successful.

J: What music has been in your personal rotation?

https://open.spotify.com/playlist/2YrSP4k1Qm7NfOhcWbj9uE?si=45cd6b891d214269

J: What are the benefits for event stakeholders to do things differently?

S: Event organizers are usually strapped for cash to organize events. They can either go to a bank that usually declines the loan, or have to pay an interest of like 20-30%. Or they go to, Ticketmaster or whatever ticketing system, and then in return have to let go of their management, data, and still pay huge interest.

So we came up with a decentralized event financing product, allowing organizers to sell tickets to investors or hedge funds that currently don't have access to this asset class of event tickets. The benefit for stakeholders is that they have liquidity upfront.

J: To your knowledge, what’s the latest in event discovery?

S: Speaking for myself, it's mostly my personal network. In my 20s, if someone was throwing a party, they usually would create a flyer for it and then that flyer is sent everywhere. But I rarely receive flyers these days.

J: These are your IG Stories nowadays.

S: Exactly. There are a lot of platforms being built that want to aggregate everything that's going on culture-wise in specific areas. And a prominent way for them to monetize this is taking a cut from ticket sales through the platform. The hard thing here is that they need to integrate with either the ticket companies or they have to manually add the new events in those specific areas. That doesn’t scale well.

J: Let’s round off with a lightning round of questions. Answer quickly, don't think too much kind of thing.

S: Let’s go.

J: Dream collab to host tickets with?

S: Our enemy, Ticketmaster.

J: Small party or a big party?

S: Small party.

J: Summer holiday or Winter holiday?

S: Summer holiday.

J: Watch a movie or play a video game?

S: Play a video game.

J: Favorite festival?

S: Lowlands.

J: Best concert you've ever seen?

S: That would probably be Radiohead. Somewhere in the 2000s.

J: Which communities do you love, and spend a lot of time in?

N: I've worn many hats in the culinary and entrepreneurial scene in Detroit, both as a sushi chef for over 15 years and a business owner. I was deep in the local Detroit culinary and entrepreneurial communities where we supported each other, shared resources and food, and enjoyed each other's events. Simultaneously, I was deeply involved in Detroit's underground electronic music scene during my 20s, organizing raves, playing in bands, and experimenting with music. These two communities have been at the core of my journey. I feel like I was nurtured here in Detroit, and now I'm kind of expanding and going out there. Haven't completely lost touch with those communities, but I'm very less active in them.

Today, a lot of my focus has shifted to Web3 communities. Friends With Benefits (FWB) was my gateway, where I learned about Web3 for a year before securing a job in the industry at Serotonin's events team via the classifieds channel. For this reason I remain loyal to FWB and believe in its potential to transform lives in the global network of creative technologists. I also engage with Web3 communities like Refraction DAO, Water & Music, and Nina Protocol, and other online communities such as New Models, Mineral Disk.

J: You've organized events for FWB in the past, could you share a bit about those experiences?

N: I organized an FWB gardening event in Detroit, at a spot where we’re transforming a vacant plot of land into a native garden. We hosted the entire FWB crew in Detroit and it was a great day of weeding, socializing, and enjoying some good food and drinks.

Then in South Korea, I helped organize a dinner for local FWB members and those in town for Korea Blockchain Week. It was a great opportunity to meet the locals in Seoul via the FWB network and the DAO bought us all dinner.

J: What, in your view, are the key ingredients for a successful event?

N: The recipe for success varies with each event, but it often starts with a mix of good people, good food, and good music. It's about creating an atmosphere where people genuinely enjoy themselves while making meaningful connections. The key is to make sure the event is not the same old, same old – it should offer something unique.

Ensuring attendees feel comfortable and welcomed from the moment they arrive is essential. Greeting them, engaging in conversation, offering drinks, and guiding them to the food are all part of creating a positive first impression.

J: How do you go about finding the right people for your events?

N: Collaborations and partnerships are my go-to approach. When organizing music events, I curate lineups that bring together different communities, fans, and members of different projects and cultures. It's about ensuring that the attendees have a diverse and enjoyable experience, often with each act drawing different crowds but still blending seamlessly.

For tech-focused events, it's all about finding like-minded individuals and projects that align with the event's theme. Building a community that supports and promotes common goals while still being diverse in its offerings is the key to success.

J: Could you share a memorable recent event and what made it special?

N: One of the standout events was the ETH Warsaw opening party I organized for Aleph Zero.

The unique aspect of this event was our approach in uniting various projects that are all building on Aleph Zero's technology stack. These projects, despite their common foundation, hadn't necessarily met in person before. So this event served as an opportunity for them to connect, share ideas, and form collaborations.

But it went beyond that. We delved deep into the uniqueness of each ecosystem project, attempting to bring their use cases to life during the event. For instance, we had a gaming project, and the event took place at a venue with crazy games everywhere - shuffleboard, mini-golf, skeeball, and more. Even karaoke. We set up a retro gaming station for the gaming project, and it was an absolute hit. We had AZERO.ID registering on-chain IDs, the ArtZero NFT marketplace had a gallery on the screens, really fun.

J: What kind of music is in your rotation nowadays?

https://open.spotify.com/playlist/3i6Yzy7JPYQNgaBV8txmNE?si=ada219c4a40641df

J: What's exciting you about your recent work?

N: As part of the launch of The Platform, we shipped an app which feels similar to twitter or reddit but it's a curated invite-only group with guided access to Serotonin's resources and professional network. It’s optimized for Web3 builders, developers, and founders. Upon being accepted, members are matched with small groups of peers and given access to experts, tools & resources, press, exclusive events, and things like that. It’s all designed to help them and their companies succeed. We’re planning a bunch of IRL events for platform members and generally helping them navigate the wide world of blockchain events.

https://twitter.com/amandacassatt/status/1708894551899861375?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1708894551899861375%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=notion%3A%2F%2Fwww.notion.so%2Fspartangroup%2FThe-Secret-Sauce-for-Community-Connection-with-Nick-George-4612483ec6714372980ba7966bf93962

J: If you all have an interest in educating people on specific concepts, let's just work together and create actually cool and interesting content that people can consume to learn about it, right?

N: There's all these shows where the idiot goes out, and experiences something new, and learns about it. I think it'd be really fun to have kind of like a “Bozos Use Web3” kind of thing. It's a live stream show and you’re watching someone try to figure out how to use Web3 who's never done it before. Play around, see how much someone can set up in 1 hour. Get your dad or your mom to come out and be like: ”All right, mom, here's what you're going to do. You're going to learn Web3. We're giving you $100. Now go out there and stake ETH somewhere.”

J: Fucking love that. Time to end this with a lighting round of questions. Summer holiday or winter holiday?

N: Winter.

J: Jazz or Metal?

N: Jazz.

J: Normal call or FaceTime?

N: FaceTime.

J: Small get together or large scale event?

N: Small get together.

J: Read books or listen to books?

N: Read books.

J: All time favorite DJ?

N: This one's a bit harder, but Jeff Mills.

J: What do you do when you take a moment to sit around and do nothing? To recharge mentally and creatively. I go soak in the vibes at disco parties.

K: I usually just hit up local, well-curated art-related spots. Gallery spaces for art, music or furniture. Or just something totally interdisciplinary. We have a physical gallery space here at the Struggle office in Helsinki.

J: I hear you’re in Paris a lot. What makes you come back to Paris all the time?

K: I just overall think that I think the city is beautiful. So, I think it's a perfect intersection of arts, culture, overall music, technology and banking. All the conversations I have with Parisians are always really comprehensive from different angles. And people appreciate the diversity of different things. It's actually quite the same as in Helsinki.

J: What about that inspires you?

K: When I go somewhere, I hope to see something where people have found new, innovative ways to communicate ideas, lessons or value. In these exhibitions and galleries, I find myself with newfound thoughts and feelings about specific ideas through design. I try to connect the dots, drawing diagrams on paper. Then, later, I can apply these frameworks to get a better understanding of concepts in my own entrepreneurship or the company I’m building.

J: Do you have a system in which you collect all of your references in a visual way?

K: Physically, I always carry a big A4 notebook and this heavy pen with me. At the start of the book, I write things which are strategy-related. From the back of the book, I connect these ideas in a mind map. And digitally, I use Obsidian on MacBook, which is like this really nice digital note board.

J: If you were to build a new startup today, what would you do first?

K: It would, of course, be related to blockchain technology and the Web3 space. From my perspective, the consumer level application layer is the one which needs the most. When I discuss blockchain with my friends, it will be impossible for most people to actually understand shit when they haven't used apps. So, just build something that’s easy-to-understand.

J: I just read a tweet of yours actually that I would like to kind of introduce this new rubric with, that I'm doing in these interviews: Explain the tweet. You tweeted, on September 18, 2023:”In a parallel decentralized universe, they currently choose consumer apps over new infrastructure.” You want to explain?

K: I think we are well-placed to efficiently expand many solutions for creating decentralized social networks. We have solutions like Chainlink and LayerZero working on cross-chain interoperability, L1 chains like Ethereum with 100% runtime, and L2 scaling solutions already leveraging the most sophisticated cryptographic breakthroughs. So, I think most of the firepower should now focus on proving this technology for the rest of the world with good consumer apps – the space is now for the protocols and applications to take.

J: What music do you listen to whilst creating?

https://open.spotify.com/playlist/59UPotVyYhH0SfnSjukg7F?si=99d9b54ac4e046b3

J: How do you look at URL versus IRL in this space?

K: I think IRL, we need events and spaces and places where people gather and actually focus on educational content. We can make this more engaging by combining it with art. I have huge respect for the rekt news guys for their YouTube content. These guys are explaining onchain patterns through animated video with great audio and such. They're like educational art pieces. That's something which has inspired me a ton in the last two years.

J: I'm gonna ask you a lightning round of questions. Don't think too much. Just answer quickly.

K: Okay.

J: Sunrise or sunset?

K: Sunrise.

J: Morning person or night person?

K: Morning person.

J: House with a garden or apartment with a view?

K: Apartment with a view.

J: Life without movies or life without music?

K: Life without movies.

J: IRL or URL?

K: IRL.

But how can you fuel your creativity to craft innovative solutions again and again?

Javelin’s Jim Duivenvoorden welcomes Blake Minho Kim - Co-counder of Myosin - for Javelin Zine 001 to chat brand narrative, startup building, and Minimum Lovable Products.

J: How do you creatively recharge during downtime, with activities that involve minimal active thinking?

B: I think it's straight up a vacation. I think I need time to actually unplug, and get off of Discord and my work stuff. I can be at my most creative when it is during the day, I lay down on the couch or the bed and just stare at the ceiling. I visualize things and let everything come together.

J: Kinda like The Queen's Gambit on Netflix. There's a shot of her laying on the bed, visualizing the chessboard on the ceiling and projecting all her moves.

B: That's what I like to do. I've always been of a bit of a planner and I like to think ahead and kind of visualize how these things all come together.

J: What did you learn at Ralph Lauren?

B: I think the common thread through a lot of this was brands, because I think that's a different form of creativity, and I think that's where I've gravitated towards more now in my job. I've done startups and venture my whole career. But I feel like the deeper I've gotten into company building, the more I realize everything in life is narrative.

If you're a lawyer, you're creating a narrative to get your client out of jail. If you're an investment banker, you're creating a narrative to sell a company. If you’re a salesperson, you're creating a narrative to sell something. So everyone is creating stories to sell to other people, and bringing it back to Ralph Lauren, I think brand, and creating a brand strategy is another form of narrative. And it's something I'm particularly excited about.

Ralph Lauren has an incredible brand. I mean, it's an incredible story: Ralph Lauren is actually Ralph Lipschitz from the Bronx. He has no actual history or heritage in this country. He just created it out of thin air by changing his name to Ralph Lauren, selling a bunch of ties, and creating a brand and a narrative. And it worked.

J: Imagine a scenario where you had to start a new startup and you have a blank canvas. What are the first steps for you in discovering that why?

B: This is what I used to do when I was a venture designer. Human Ventures was one of the OG Venture Studios back in 2017. I was fortunate to join their venture design team as one of their first hires. My whole role was about finding out what the opportunities were and building an MVP to test those assumptions.

If we feel like we're confident about it, then I would pitch internally to our investment committee to say: hey, this is what we want to build. Here's why we should build it. Let's put money behind this, launch it and turn it into real company.

It's a business model canvas: What are the markets? What are the opportunities? I think being a good entrepreneur and being a good venture designer is all about staying on top of everything that's happening in the world. I think the reason I've been successful at what I do is I'm a voracious reader and I stay on top of everything that's happening.

So, to me, constantly learning about different things and different fields is the key to creativity. Because that's what creativity is, right? It's just mixmashing different shit that should not be together but somehow it works, right?

J: Like a musician who listens to so much music, that they can channel all these inspirations into original ideas for new good music.

B: Exactly. If you want to create a new idea, you need to absorb a shit ton of other ideas to start to think about creativity. That's what an entrepreneur should do. And then research the trends you see in the world. Look at what is changing. The opportunity is when things shift.

J: On the topic of music, what music do you listen to whilst creating?

https://open.spotify.com/playlist/6oxyNXEprWyaFiiTNGK8NE?si=dc89ab6d3b07426e

J: What do you consider as an MVP?

B: Actually, we call it Minimum Lovable Product. Because I think there are a lot of cases where it's not so much about creating the technical functionality as I said before, it's about narrative and selling the vision for what this can be. It can be as simple as a landing page, but make it look real. Make it look sexy.

And then put it in front of strangers. It shouldn't be just a Minimum Viable Product because if it looks like shit, people aren't going to react in the way that you want them to react. You need to sell them the big shiny toy and the facade of what this will be. Whether or not the functionality works, that's unimportant because you're testing your assumptions.

Not does it function, but is it lovable enough?