Code changes the world. As the most important role of blockchain, Web 3.0 implementers and Builders, developers' ideas directly determine the appearance and development speed of Web 3 to a certain extent. How do they think of Web 3.0 and what kind of Web 3.0 they want to build? What challenges and problems? A conversation between developers started on 499Block Twitter Sapce.
Diana(CMO of UTU.ONE): For panel 1, we invited Hang Yin, Phala Co-founder & Lead Developer. Liu yisi, CTO of Mask. Cal(UC Berkeley Researcher). Richard, Huobi Researcher. Apesian, NFT Influencer. Zhimao, Co-founder of Cyber Connect to share today’s topic about DID. As you all know, it stands for decentralized identifiers. Would you guys like to introduce a bit about yourself?
Zhi Mao(Co-founder of Cyber Connect): My name is Zhi Mao. I'm from Cyber Connect. Cyber Connect is decentralized social graph protocol for Web3, social applications or gaming applications.
In terms of a decentralized identity, we are offering great tools to first help everyone to aggregate decentralize their identities. So we are achieving this so called blockchain agnostic by using DID implementations powered by ceramic. So that's one side. And another side is about our social connections. So basically, everyone can connect through our protocol. And this kind of social connection data is portable, cross different applications across different communities and blockchains.
One can think of social graph is your contact list, your following list, follower list. So we try to offering a protocol for everyone to record this kind of connections on chain. And also on top of that, we have some data index and services and this kind of data index and services offering ability to for developers to get recommendations, data based on the social graph, based on personalized social graph.
Cal(UC Berkeley Researcher): I'm actually born and raised here in the Silicon Valley, here in San Francisco. I'm a graduate student researcher at the university, California, Berkeley. I studied on the intersection of blockchain and data science. For the last 6 years, I've been full time in the crypto space as an advisor for several different projects in around the world.
Apesian(NFT Influencer): I've founded and only managing one of the largest Pan Asia NFT investor communities on discord and also kind of like run initiative where we bring together Asian communities from all over in the metaverse to our Asia was made up initiatives.
Liu yisi(CTO of Mask): My name is Liu yisi and I'm the CTO of Mask network. Mask network is focusing on burning like the traditional Web2 people into the Web3 world. And then our approach is that we do such an browser extension that we inject things were dumb elements into twitter or Facebook, where many other like social networks, so that users can interact with the decentralized applications or any other like on blockchain related projects directly on top of twitter.
Hang Yin(Phala Co-founder & Lead Developer): I'm Hang Yin from Phala network, the lead developer and co-founder. What we are doing is trying to offer a cloud computing environment so that you can deploy some application very similar to the traditional application that can access the both on chain and off chain data. The same time we can make that privacy preserving. When we are talking about decentralized identity, I think in my mind, we need to establish a kind of identity. We can connect that identity to your social activities and the on-chain activities. And of course, this involve the connection between the on-chain data and the off chain data. On the other side, we also need to ensure everything can be privacy preserving. Otherwise, it's no better than your google account and Facebook account. We can help in a few ways. For example, on our end, we support the http request from the smart contract. If you already have an on-chain identity infrastructure, and you want to verify anything of the block chain, you can just use our infrastructure to access the data of the block chain in a privacy preserving and verifiable way. On the other hand, we can also help with managing the data and help user to authenticate the access to their data on the blockchain. This is only possible. Because on the one hand, we offer an execution environment very similar to amazon lambda, where you can deploy your application in a faster function as a service way. On the other hand, this run time environment is protected by the hardware, so that we can ensure the program is correctly running in the CPU and you cannot access the data inside the program.
Diana: The question is DID should be one of the most important infrastructures of Web3, obviously. But why there are not that many great products at present?
Zhi Mao: I think decentralized storage is one side about to store this kind of decentralized identity. There's another side about this called decentralized system. I think it's about the mutable content. So one can think of currently lots of things happening doing like on IPFS the content is immutable, but for decentralized identity, for example, you will update your social connections or your decentralized data in a frequent way. So mutability is one important side for disinterested in the besides storage.
Cal: I think that so we're covering the topic of decentralized identity. This is really good topic, because in 2017 at the world economic forum, I participated a in a hacker thorn at the world economic forum for blockchain and place. We actually focused on a project that centered around decentralized identity. What we did was we built a credit rating system that which scraped data from different social medias such as twitter. And I would develop a credit rating for the dark web. I think that's something that could really be established for that's gonna be paralleled alongside with decentralized finance would be the decentralized would be a credit rating system, because as we start building financial instruments in the decentralized finance industry.
Apesian: I think some respect is kind of like a reputation management, part of identity as well, which I think like is great to have self-transparency. To that sort of data, you could potentially access certain data that you otherwise not be able to and maybe act on it to improve certain processes for efficiency. I guess at the same time with all this data on chain, I think the question is right. Like statistics is not necessarily favorable for you, what extent is it going to alienate certain groups of people, make them not want to participate as much as we would have like them to, especially for some demo graphics that maybe naturally disadvantaged in certain areas. Then certain statistics might be actually compound some of that negativity over time.
Hang Yin: I think there are a lot of projects that have appeared over the past years trying to tackle this area. One project that I was following back when I entered the crypto space in 2017, I think part of it is probably because of how difficult potentially it could be to get regulatory approval or maybe even cooperation from government bodies, it was part of having this centralized Identity is like you want to be able to safeguard and kind of like your individual Identity and being able to like participate in the web 3 through that.But at the same time, I think it's really hard to get away from the government of things with respect to Identity if notice some enforcement issues, you have to depend on the regulatory. So I think there's a bit of like a back-and-forth in terms of to what extent we want it fully decentralized out to what extent we want kind of involvement from the government as well. As far as I know, I think some of you may have heard about the recent developments in China. Where they trying to create a separate NFT infrastructure. They will be using it for cases such as accreditation management for car number plates, for example. So I think like car plates that it's not exactly like an Identity, but you can think about it as each car number plate is going to be unique, and it's going to be verifiable on the blockchain. So you can think of an extension of that into the Identity space. We still need to figure out what is the extent that is acceptable for us, there like more of web3 natives.
Liu yisi: As long as he picture like your wallet address or your ENS，like name in your profile bio, it'll show the all the NFTs you've owned right now. But this is kind of like a tricky thing, cause we need, what we can verify that you are actually the owner of this address for sure, so we are releasing another product very soon. And we will add a button on Twitter that you can actually connect you Twitter profile as I mentioned. Maybe you can think about it as an identification number. You can link your wallet address, and we will directly double signature from both to verify that you are actually the owner of this wallet address. Then we will automatically show all your NFTs where all your on chain assets directly in your profile page. We're also releasing another product very soon. The whole point is that we want to build such a key based on profiling, on service that you can actually connect all your social media account, your wallet addresses altogether with signatures on both side. By this graph, you can actually link all your wallet addresses, or even your social web 2 accounts with other people. And then we will release this public graph for free to everyone.
Zhi Mao: I wanna add a apparently, a very obvious separation between web2 system and web3 systems. As Diana mentioned, you can do data analysts on the Twitter space and reputation, and then on the Twitter space. But when you try to link the Identity from the traditional web2 system back to blockchain base, there's a barrier and there's a difficulty to achieve that. And in terms of like issues, opinion about this public social graph, I have a quick question about like, how do you guys preserve the privacy of the social graph one owned on the traditional web 2 systems?
Liu yisi: I care the privacy a lot, because apparently like Mask is focusing on privacy preserving for long. And then, so like I will tell my users or our users that here's one thing that on one's public forever public. So there's a way, or there's an option for you guys to opt out from this system, from this like social graph. But once on chain or once on public, all the data will be public forever. And then this is the risk and or the trade off you need to take. And we will present users watch the risk warning before they do anything on top of this. And once they agree that to put their like data or to put their like connections on this public servers, they will be there forever, and then they can never remove them, for sure, they can remove like some connections, but all the data, where all the interactions, where all the actions will be preserved there forever, and this is the risk they need to take. I mean like for all the web 2 applications or web 2 platforms, they never gave users this opt out options. But now web 3, I guess this is the very core feature of this area that we gave users options, but you want a better service out of this, you need to have the trade off between you privacy, and your link convenience. And I guess we will probably need to educate more on this for our users or for all the web 3 users. And this is just very early stage for this right now.
Hang Yin: In the past, we used to think about a product is not built yet, but just in our imagination. But web 2, you probably heard about Google analytics. So basically, it is a java script plugin, and it's almost everywhere, maybe 90 % of the website have this plugin. It just collect your access in the network and upload it to Google, and they do some analytics, for example, how long you stay in this page, and what is the user retention and daily active users on each page, of course, this is surely web 2. So what we imagine was that if we can put all this infrastructure inside some decentralized platform, and if we can do so, we can offer users something like the privacy setting on your Iphone or Android, so you can switch on or off for each website, you can check how they access your data. And if you are willing to share the data with the websites or applications, if we can have such infrastructure, I think this can help a lot to for user to manage their user profile and the privacy data. And even you have shared some data with some application now, maybe after a few days, you regret, then you can turn it off. So only the already derived data can be used, but we can forbid any new data to be derived from your raw data. Theoretically, this is possible as long as we have some decentralized cloud, and it's privacy preserving. But it will be a very large project. It's not easy to build.
Richard(Huobi Researcher ): I'm Richard from Huobi research. We are Huobi group and we have various interests from infrastructure and applications of web 3. And I think there is a product called Arc X so they are building this passport on chain data. So they analyze your on chain behaviors in applications. For example, they record how long you hold an airdrop. And I think in the future, maybe this kind of on chain data could be used for on the loans, which is missing the DeFi space now. And the other thing I would like to share with DID that I think it's quite hard to build the DID ecosystem in the top down manner. I think project galaxy is exploring this very interesting way that they start with forming partnerships with DeFi protocols to build various credentials. And then they just released the galaxy ID so the ID is kind of intrinsically multichain, because those DeFi protocols, these credentials are basically from different chains. So I guess it's easier to build in the bottom up manners. First, you build a credential system. Then you build the DID. Galaxy have recently extended to Solana, it would be really interesting if they decide that the galaxy ID can be linked to both the EVM address and Solana address.
Panel2
Michael(499Block): OK, so, let me just point out the topic, the topic of panel two.So one of the hot topic this year is DAO, and the reality is that most of the DAO attempt have filled. Many people have also found that DAO efficiency and execution have problems. Are you participating in some DAOs they feel more successful? And would you think about the future development of DAOs? Feel free to share your thought on DAOs governance. I will invite our guest here to share.
Cal: Could you repeat the question again?
Michael(499Block): Okay, so, one of the topic is DAO this year and the reality is most of the projects have failed. So many people have also found DAO efficiency and execution have problems. So are you participating in some kind of DAOs and any successful DAOs in today? And would you think about the future development of DAOs?
Cal: Okay. Yeah, first of all, before we start talking about DAOs, I guess the most important thing to understand is that there's multiple types, multiple types of the DAOs. There's DAOs are, let's say, DAOs. There's also other DAOs are investment DAOs. There's also protocol DAOs. There's also social clubs that behave like DAOs. And essentially, there's many type of DAOs in the space. And even we have, let's say, also operating systems DAOs or OS DAOs what people call. And I personally, I have been working with DAOs for the last three years and a half, four years more less. And I have seen many DAOs failed, but I've seen also DAOs succeed.So for example, I’ve been part of the MetaCartel, the MetaCartel initially started as grants DAOs. People were coming to us and asking us for grants, basically for building the different projects. And we were supporting them at the very beginning. And then after that, they will have a enough support from our community to start racing from BCs or even racing from the same members of the DAO. So that's how you get started. Then after that, there was an investment, DAO that was created after the grants DAO. Currently, I think that the MetaCartel has invested in over 50 projects， if I'm not mistaken. At the same time， there's other type of DAO that has a legal (01:31:47) or like a legal framework that I'm also a member of, I'm actually one of the mentors and this one is called the Lao. The Lao was pretty much like the first DAO that had a legal (01:32:03) that was a focus as an investment DAO， also that the Lao, I think, has invested in over 70 projects or something like that. The Lao was created by the same people that created Flamingo DAO , (01:32:20) DAO, and a couple of other mores.Also, we're seeing that there's a lot of collectors that was coming out. So we have, as I mentioned, Flamingo DAO, we have (01:32:33) DAO, we have Well DAO, we have beats DAO, Squiggle DAO, (01:32:41) DAO that is focused on the(01:32:45) psycho system. And I'm more collectors are coming up. Then we also have the service DAO. So it may be a DAO that focuses on providing services, like, for example, Rate Yield, who is providing engineering power and also providing the product development and as well QA and other type of things.Then we have, let's say, the social DAOs, in the social DAOs, we can see DAOs like friends with benefits. We can see also DAOs like seat club. We could see DAOs like, they made a game DAO or even even they made a gamma delta which is a woman (01:33:42) DAO. And then if we talk about the protocol DAOs, there are a multiple there in the space. So we have maker unit swap, have a (01:34:00) synthetics, curve, badger, cream, balancer, or limpos Bitcoin and multiple other DAOs. And basically what they do is that they have a protocol that is functioning, and that is accumulate some sort of funds by providing some, let's say, some services with the protocol and with the products that they have. The DAOs or like the community are able to participate in the governance process of those DAOs.Then we also have the DAO operating systems, which is what I called DAOs OS, we have different ones like Aragon or DAO stack or Colony or DAO house, which was also a born in the meta artical ecosystem.And then we have another one which is pretty new as well, (01:35:08)DAOs that is also going to be an operating system DAOs. I think that just today, there was one that is called super DAO that was also funded, receive over $10 million yesterday. And I think if we say that DAOs have been failing, I would say, yes, there are some that fail that are very, very active and new. And I'm seeing a new trend as well, which the impact DAOs. Basically, DAOs are focused on creating social impact, creating, let's say, something better for humanity and offering, let's say, opportunities for the different participants to do good for humanity. Those are like all the different type of DAOs that I'm seeing.And I would say that is, it's a big statement to say that DAOs are failing. I've seen multiple protocols DAOs that are actually working intended. Obviously, like the most difficult part, is the governance side like what to allowed, who to allow to propose, how to manage those proposals, and also how to deliver them, how to measure impact, how to measure the different contributions that people are making.That's, I would say, the most difficult part and what I would say, what pretty much all the DAOs are failing, it’s because it’s very difficult to understand what people are contributing.So it’s very subjective and not, most of the time, not really objective, when it comes to the contribution of the human capital instead of financial capital, it’s very easy to see DAOs focus on contribution of financial capital, people are used looking at the money that is locked within the protocol.But it's really, really hard to understand, actually, the contributions made by humans, and what is the value that they're bringing to the social organization or to the DAO itself. That's my perspective.
Michael(499Block): All right.So anyone else? What's your opinion in the DAO?
Michael(499Block): How to pronounce your name? Manu?
Manu: Yeah, Manu
Manu: ok, good, I totally agree with you with the DAO stuff. I haven't introduced myself. I wanna have a brief introduction. I'm previously based in New York and study in NYU, and I had a startup about freelancery, which I think it's really highly related to the DAO as well ,and I will explain this later. I recently get more engagement to the websites, web three space by being a developer. And I was previously working in building a stable coin for oral finance. Currently, I'm building the active project that enables user to do NFT diffusion.Speaking of the DAO, and I think the DAO is the new form of the organization to bring the diverse people together, and I think DAO actually is not failing, actually has a lot of, has unlimited imaginations. Speaking of the first DAO, I remember is the DAO who got attacked, we got a (01:39:39) attacked, right? And got drained by out of a lot of money. People start to writing about articles, talking about the failure of the DAO and the insecurities, that kind of stuff. And we recently see various types of DAO emerged. And what I see, the people DAO, right? That's how the whole space get pumped about like the DAO and a lot of DAO just mushroom. I think that's, the people DAO is actually a great movement, even though it doesn't continue to build anything around it, it's actually a step forward to introduce the DAO concept to the others, right? And it gathers the power of the people and to invest for a specific thing. And it's like a really great way to get the monetary from the people. And also I see the growth DAO, right? Like recently have a lot of the growth DAO. And I think, I see it as a fans economy, because in the traditional web two, you have like Twitter space, you have a lot of fans, and you have the only fans, right? You contribute to the fans community. And the fans DAO is another innovative way of doing this, right? I see a lot of, and also the DAO for MFTs as well, and they kind of including the exclusive membership of specific area of people.For the future of DAO. I think it's quite related to what I built before, is I think the future is being a freelance economy, right? I think the future of working will be the freelance economy that everyone goes to remote, and we gathered talents without the location limitations. I think people will be more specialized in a specific area or skill, let's say, or may being a (01:42:10) developers or web three developers. So I'm being an expert in a specific field. And so this person can help in multiple companies instead of staying in a single company, right? And I think to tackle the specific problem very fast and help the company to build and grow in a specific area.And I think how does it relate to DAO and my thinking is the DAO becomes a new way to gather those kind of freelancers, not really the freelance, those kind of the talents, right? In the future, we can have like a developer DAO, right? The designer DAO as well. And those DAO, probably we're gonna help those founders, those who have a great idea to realize the project.And I think it's the crucial role to having those DAO to as the back of the web 3, cause they're gonna to be the crucial part to build a web 3 space, right? Like, I think those are kind of my views on the future of DAO.And also, I wanna probably, and also, I think, I wanna expand this to the NFT as well, that I've seen the news before like the Berkeley class, they're giving the student, professor, they're giving the student the （01:44:08）, right? The （01:44:10） as in the class as a recognition of the performance.And I think that's a great way of recognize any kinds of people. I think every institution should endorse that and give a person recognition on the classing performance or the, right? internal recognition. And how does it relate to the hiring? Because I think this recognition can be a part of the proofs in the decentralized resume, right? We can build a decentralized resume, maybe a DAO behind this can build such tools. And or we build a decentralized linking as related to the social science stuff. I think in this way is very easy for the company to hire and verify and doing the due diligence for the person they won't hire. And it actually will reduce a lot of time to check on users as well as the skills. It's gonna be the lifesaver of those HRs. Right? I think maybe we should have a HR DAO that we can get around the talents for the project as well.Yeah, so that's my thoughts.
0xYH.eth: So many of the things that you said(01:45:54-58) we used to call or are calling cooperatives. There's like cooperatives, the CD to cooperatives where basically telant is coming together. And they have the set of rules, and a percentages goes to the organization or for managing the operations of that specific organization.But basically, anyone is kind of like an independent worker that contributes to any other project that that gets basically hired, or there has some sort of partnership with another project or another protocol or so on. One of those is (01:46:44) and also (01:46:46). They provide, for example, engineering power. But then there so for designers, there's like the director DAO. There's more and more of these, let's say, cooperatives or detail cooperatives for a specialized work,
Cal: right, I'm gonna research for those style, I think the great issue right here is how do you let us know about this, like how to get around those resources. It’s kind of very important like when I, it's kind of panic or pain as like when you're doing a project that you don't have the right talents, right?And even though it's some, even some project leaders fo to the (01:47:45) or artwork, they're looking for the freelancers to do the job, which is, I mean that the quality is pretty much unsured.So I think for those kind of DAO, it's really good to incorporate those kind of DAO and letting those DAO to help the founder to build a project. It's just, how do we get around those resources, how do people know about there's a designer DAO where like a developer DAO. We might have a hub for that, to get around those human resources.
M12: 100 %, I think that what is really important to understand and to remember is that in all of these DAOs, because he's coming from a DAO, doesn't necessarily mean that the quality is gonna be top notch. We need to remember that there's still individuals within the DAO and maybe the tuition process wasn't the best.We still need to remember that just because he's coming from a DAO, doesn't mean that the talent has like the best skills in the web three space. They might have just joined and they might be learning.Again, just because some talent is coming from from a DAO doesn't necessary represent that the quality of the work is gonna be tough notch.
Cal: Right. So I think it's necessary to build an infrastructure to let us to verify on these talents, right? So we use the NFTs as like. So every institution actually may be able to issue a kind of NFT, right? To recognize those people in a specific skills and also the job he has done in other companies or DAOs or something, right? I think the great challenge here is the education cost, like do you let those institution to issue their own NFT that to prove this person's skills. I think it's pretty necessary to have such infrastructure to just as a proof of the person's talent.And it's a great way, and you're unable to cheat if we make the (01:50:34) NFT on transferable and stay on the block chain. It's kind of a good utility of the NFT have think of.
0xYh.eth: Right. So I think to build such thing is very interesting. And I'm looking forward to do more research about this field and see what I can do for this decentralized human resources stuff.
Cal: Hey, guys, can I just ask you about, are you guys feeling comfortable that if the important members like, say, the members of the DAO council and they themselves staying on? Because have something big just happened last night, I think. And some not just, you never know who is behind that a non profile page, and maybe he is a scammer or something.So personally, I would be really more comfortable with the, let's say, DAO multi (01:52:01) controller uploading his personal profile, and it's even better if the profile stays on trend becomes very verifiable. Are you guys comfortable with the important members of DAO (01:52:23)?
oxYH.eth: That's a really good question. From my perspective, I think that there's a lot of great talent that is contributing anonymously. Probably they wouldn't be doing that type of contributions if they were doing it with their own identity. This is double-edged sword.So, for example, let's say that you are living in a country like my country, for example, I'm originally from Venezuela, maybe the government there doesn't like that you're building something that gives more freedom to the people from Venezuela. So if you're doing a (01:53:24) and then, basically, you can create something good for those people. However. there's a risk, and the risk is what you said that they, that people can use basically sometimes uses cam and and create a new profile. And like I said like there's no reputation, just because they have ability of creating a new identity. I personally think that in order to create a lot of trusts with the community, it’s to better to not being on, but then also you need to keep in mind that maybe right now you're not in on. But in the future, you might become a target by kidnapper or by, let's say, governments that actually want to go against you or whatever.So I think it’s a tough question that doesn't really have a right answer. I think that it all depends on the circumstances, and what he said that that person is intending to do, as I said before, like it’s very easy to use this cam and use (01:55:00) and create a new identity,
Cal: I think, in my view, I think we have to thinking in different aspects, like in your real life, you have one identity, and in the metaverse, you have another identity. So I mean like you actually as a person, you can have like different identities in different verses, so you will build up your profile in your real life, but you can also build up your profile in the metaverse. It doesn't have to be, it doesn't have to be the person, the profile in the real life, right? So you can be Charles in the real life, but you can be Adam in the metaverse. But I think the point here is, you gotta have a profile in the verse, right? You gotta have, as you said, you get a DAO, you gotta have a page, a website, that's a web 2 way of doing that. If we have a web three way of doing that, we have a website that shows all the other members in the DAO, and they're the holding of the DAO tokens.And also each member we were clicking the profile, we see the decentralized profile and see what's their decentralized image is. So I think it's a different way of seeing this question. I think it's definitely very important for a DAO that has the member who has a really promising decentralized profile. So actually, I think right now, what we have to do is to build the infrastructure for those web three people to display a profile either in a skill profile or the social profile in the web three space.
Michael: We talking about DAOs, and you can refer to your project as well, could you give us an introduction first of yourself?
Leo: OK.Sure.Okay. My name is Leo Madrid. I'm based in the San Francisco Bay Area and a little island called Alameda. My partners are listening, maybe speakers as well, Doctor Kaputy or Doctor Ozone on Twitter. We are actually relatively new to the block chain space as far as developers go, but we are inventors and theoretical physicist. And we developed a form of hybrid quantum computing that we recently completed a global competition and artificial intelligence having to do with the combating COVID-19 with machine learning.And the Tweet was just sent out. I think the group here just sent out a Tweet with the link to our latest press release. And it's a pretty exciting project. And what we did was design an algorithm with customer equipment as well, that could accurately predict COVID outbreak rates around the world in 235 regions, 7 day average, 180 days out, it was a sandbox experiment with over 100 competitors, of all the 104 teams, we were the only ones using quantum computers and only 20 of us were able to actually finish both phases. So that was a pretty exciting time that ended like last March. And then we went from there to, what one of the applications we had in the competition was also a contact tracing system that was based on the XYO proof of origin block chain. And we have examples of that, if we were going to check that out, you can see our demo site at haloai.me, and my background includes I was an organizational development specialist for a semiconductor company, and also worked in the military in organizational development. And we just launched a DAO on astro DAO. We received the grant from near foundation, a $60,000 grant. We also one of the meta build hacker (02:01:14) challenge which was building our own block chain basically substrate block chain to host this artificial intelligence platform.We're currently in two hacker (02:01:27) and we're building the infrastructure right now on Estuary. The DAO we have in mind is going to be open to everybody, let me take this call.
Cal: I was asking if by any chance you were part of the Kernel program by Bigcoin?
Leo: No, I don't know what that is at all. No, we're pretty much exclusively. I've done some things on just some like personal mining and stuff on the theory platform. But as far as development, we're pretty much exclusively the near protocol and working on that level three applications.But what's exciting about this is a form of general artificial intelligence that we've already been able to demonstrate multiple things, multiple applications for. Once we get it up and running, this will be a tool that will bring, what we call it non randomness, and there's also an element of time that we, because the mechanisms that we used for the data unifies, the laws of quantum mechanics and relativity.And we're able to, right now, we're in the process of upload or creating a data flow that are the computer that we have feeding the system will be feeding live into the chain. And then we'll have hardware and software that will allow other users to contribute to the network. So what we're building, we call it a neural lace network, where every person becomes a node in the network. What I see, I see the DAO is a very powerful tool.We just launched our DAO actually a couple days ago, so we're just building it. But it's going to be, I think, our primary tool, we're putting all of our funding is going right into the DAO. We're kind of treating it like digital CFO, and then right now, we already have three open challenges or bounties that anybody could come in and contribute it.And so our primary audience for developers of our artists, generally, we're going to have a lot of people that will be contributing to what we're doing in a kind of piecemeal just here and there not necessarily a full time members of the team.I see the DAO is like one of the most exciting tools to help manage that while simultaneously offering full financial transparency for the project.And so that it can be found if you want to check it out, it's astro DAO. And our ours is called Peace Inc.And let's see, that's kind of the project in kind of a short version of the project. But there's quite a bit to it, there's, to my knowledge, that we're kind of a niche area that were the only people working in this field. If you read our press release, you'll see that we invented the technology. So this is a sort of ground level project and opportunity for everybody to get involved. But we could see in the future, thousands of people are contributing at their own level in multiple ways. And we really want to be able to integrate the DAO application with basically all of our other applications, and integrated it into full, I guess, corporate management, I don't really like the word corporate, we're more of a collective, so I guess it's a collective management tool, and a good way to have a built-in-checks and balances on the financial aspect of it. Just recently, we just started, we're looking at some physical spaces here in the bay area where we're planning on opening up a gallery, that's an NFT gallery along with fine art. And the DAO would be featured prominently in the gallery for everyone in it, because we kind of have an open invitation that anybody could participate at some level.Right now, we're in even two hacker (02:06:52) where we're up loading our core data right now, but we do have, if anybody wants to check our stuff out, you can go to our (02:07:01) page, which is (02:07:03).com slash Peace Inc, Peace Inc, and we have a hybrid quantum computing clock that anybody can download for free and just test it out, and this will be the kind of the foundation of our core substrate that when the chain is up, this would be representative the data that would be using, but it's a pretty cool App, it is a type of clock.So you can tell, it'll tell you what time it is, UTC, and there's a spatial nature to time that most people don't really understand how it works, time dilation, this has to do with Einstein’s Relativity, but our software sort of visually illustrates the spatial nature of time. It's pretty cool actually, I think everybody had seen it really likes it. So that's free to download, in the future, we'll be building what we are building is a clock that integrates our token with the passage of time. So we're developing an utility token,that will, you'll be able to come to the App. And once you activate it, the token will be correlated with the passage of time. Hopefully we'll have that up within, I think, maybe the month that we're getting close. This is probably not anything you've heard about or anything exactly like this in the past. This is new to us as well as everybody else that we've encountered. So it's exciting to be a part of like a web three development revolution. But are there any questions? Or I know a lot of this is probably not the clarity, because it's kind of a visual application, so I would encourage everybody to visit our websites and check those out. Those, that the Twitter link that I think was sent out with the link to our press release, you'll see the links in there to our websites and our demo site, just a little shortcut. If you want to read our white paper, it's just haloaio.computer.
Dani: Leo, I just wanted to, if you wanted me to go over anything.
Michael: if you want to introduce yourself and sort of your role in it？
Dani: Sure, my name is Dani Caputy. I got my phD from the University of California Davis in 2019 in atmospheric science and really wasn't involved in the crypto world at all. I was involved in the geosciences and philosophy of mind. And then when I met Leo and all of his amazing inventions at this event, and just following up and then seeing how I contribute and to the building of everything. We kind of explore different communities and eventually found the near community.And so that's how I kind of became involved in this world. But other than that, I'm a chip data scientist at the organization, Peace Ink. And you can find me in a lot of the videos and the press releases and white papers that Leo was mentioning earlier.So, yeah, if you guys have any questions, feel free to ask them now or just reach out to either one of us.
Michael: The time for panel two is almost up. We will wrap it up your exelent project. I will make an article after twitter space and we'll share it to our communities. And thank you--Iceland for sharing.
Leo: Thank you for inviting us. We look forward to next time.
Michael: Yeah, I thought we have some new guests coming here, new guests, we have Michael, Kevin, and George here. And we have S. Earthin. Why don't we start with Kevin from team?
Kevin: We can hear you pretty well. That’s awesome. This is Kevin, John coming from your San Jose, California and judge with us. Both of us are from the key project. So do you wanna have a quick self introduction or what kind of induction you want? Can I continue? Or just? Probably I got this. It's kind of I'm talking to, everyone never said and is listening, all right. Okay. All right, it’s my honor to be here. And before I joined the team actually I was the CCTO of another company in silicon valley company's house(02:21:48-50). If you're in United States, you probably know the company,because the company made the Kobe test kit. You can get it for free from the government. So that's why probably half of you already have it. But that has nothing to do with a block chain, but I started a team 3 years ago, that because at that moment, I was hoping to find a new tax stack to build an attractive and secure internet protocol.At that moment. We don't know what the web three is. But actually now I realize it is actually what web three is supposed to be. So we meet key project, and the keyboard is a keyboard. It tries to make a a framework. So as a developer, assuming most people here today, developers, we build a platform for developer to build website application, and we're trying to make a decentralized clock computing platform. That means you actually can make a application as if it is a club is computing, a club is a program, but actually, it's running not in the cloud, not in the daily center. It's running on the whole--the minus host.So in that case, your application is fully decentralized. You don't have to pay an Amazon. You don't have to even Jeff don’t like the Amazon didn't want you to be there. You can still host by other minus as long as they think it's profitable. To make it easier, we are if we tried a lot how to make their building application, especially decentralized application easier. We try to use whatever we have. We learned using in the Cloud Air. For example, we still use three years from him back(02:23:45-47) and database. It's not amazing, right? Most people think it's not possible to have a database in the cloud, in the block chain, because block chain’s data machine. Whenever you deal with the state machine, you have to have stay like a block IB(02:24:05-07), a few seconds or few minutes, and you don't have anything like single server anymore.But what we do is we try to mimic what you have already learned. So we provide a decentralized or distributed database, and also we’re using assembly. So in that case, if you write any code, you know how to a compile code into the vacuum assembly is supposed to be running as function the service and front and still Javascript. But that is not hosting a web server. We don't have observer at all. So your code is supposed to be host in any IPFS server. So for user, like, for example, for a consumer, regular consumer, they don't have to go to a traditional website, like HTTPS something. If the domain name, we don't have that. You just go to the IP address, the IPFS address and load the source code, the front and the south code, and the application running in your browser.And that application actually looking for any host node, which host your application, you don't have to specify what is anyone, because they are just the same. You can go to any of them. They as exactly the same. And that node will connect to what we call the back end database, or data machine is also another node. A group of node, not only one, the group of node, they rank new type of consensus to have a state recognized between each other. Those nodes actually can join or leave at any anytime. It don't have to think up the historical data. That's like most of block chain nose data. Did you know, sometime you have to think of a very long time to get over there, the historical data, but we don't need to. The reason is, we use a very new type of consensus and talking about consensus. Something may be considered the POWPOS whatever pure something. We are actually doing a very new type of consensus. We called a proof of trust and the proof of time.So that's why it's pretty interesting that our hardware to have special requirement, you have a minus know that have to have at least two special devices on the machine hardware. One is TPM chip. It's a small silicon, which is used in smart and in almost every computer. Another thing is even interesting that is GPS, you listen correctly. It is the satellite is we use it for navigation, we use that for a time stamp from the satellite. And those some people may ask why you need the time, I mean. The reason is we need the time to order the older events so that because all the NOSE have the same sort of the same source of the time event, they actually can solve together.That is why we need, we need time and the TPM in the trust computer chip to protect the unclear in the computer.So that we can trust on the node, which is, we know it's running, which are under-protected or under protection. We don't need to run a present for tolerance, consensus in our layer, too. That is basic, it's complicated. I try to make it easier. But I know after my talk, most of you probably get even confused.
George: So Kevin, this is George here. How's it going?
Michael: Yeah, great. So George, you can make instruction. I think you can speak better than me.
George: So I'm George. I'm part of the byzantine at T project. Let's just come, Kevin just said we're using a novel block chain solution where we have two layers. We actually have one layer that takes care of the byzantine fault tolerance. And you can think of that likes the layer one likes, I think, you can think it likes a bouncer at a nightclub. So a bouncer at a nightclub it checks the IDs.Once you're checked out, then you can go inside the nightclub. So you can think of our layer two is like the actual nightclub after the layer one does the byzantine fault tolerance. It checks that all the nodes on layer two are who they say they are through the TPM ship using remote a testation, then that means everyone in layer two can have a good, everyone in the nightclub can have a good time, because the layer two they can run at full speed. They don't need to do any sort of consensus to check that. That's what really slows down a block chain like a theorem. Because a theorem has to can keep every time this new block, there has to be consensus, and it really slows everything down.And that's why it's hard to have full speed, rich applications running on a theorem. You can imagine that a developer on a theorem who wants to do a decentralized application, they'll use a hard hat or truffle. They'll write the smart contract, but the smart contract is not like a computer, right? It's almost like a vending machine or a calculator. It's very simplistic. And then that code is then just a smart contract. And then if there has to write any data, have to write it to the block chain, which is another slow, expensive process. And of course none of these steps are decentralized and not even the front end layer.So that's what we're trying to solve in the T project is our front end is decentralized IPFS our execution layer is actually can run at full speed because our layer tools is no longer doing the slow byzantine fault tolerance. It's able to run applications at full speed within the protected unclear(02:30:28-30) at the TPMS of the mining machines. Like Kevin mentioned, we do have SQL layer data, an actual database layer that's not on the block chain. So if you have a theory map and you wanna write to the block chain, you could use something like orbit DB, but still people in the theory and, they're still in the theory of mindset where everything has to be written to the block chain.Everything asked me go to the ledger, and that really slows things down.Obviously, also, there's probably a lot of apps that need private data that you don't want everyone to see. So our solution, as Kevin mentions a little bit complicated, but it uses GPS again, that has another benefit in that. It's not a traditional type of consensus but. That's very slow. It's very fast. Both through our TPM, using our TPM and our GPS, so it's really a novel solution that will solve a lot of problems for DEBBS that are coming on boarding onto web three right now.
Michael: Awesome. Thank you,George.All right. So and besides the project of T. And we also have Ersin in here, the city of hero’s chained. Would you give us the introduction about yourself?Project?
Ersin: Thank you for having me here. Our Santa Skin from the hero's chained team and the CTO of the team. We are actually from Inventina games, which is developing a game by development framework to help real game studios convert their games to block chain technology. He has changed our first game. We want to go to introduce “play and earn” concept as an alternative to “play to earn”, which is, in a nutshell, game first from game five. What it means is we use the same and active technologies as the other play to earn games. So the earning part is the same technically play, but we focus on the game first, rather than game vacation of D-5, a great game, like traditional game, aiming the 3.2 billion real gamers out there.First, so the D-5 comes later. And also, we're actually looking for an answer to the question. Where do you find the money to pay the gamers when the hype is gone or external funding is gone? One way is 3,000,000,000 gamers are paying about $200 billion to the real game. So that sounds like yearly. That sounds like a sustainable fuel. And also we have an innovative consensus mechanism we're working on, which we call proof of touring. I'm working on a paper. If it is google super rational attack, you gonna see my article on the cryptography, my list. I call proof of work, proof of steak, proof of CPU and all that proof of cash, because hash power improving work can be convertible to money. You can get majority hash power, buy majority hash power. Proof of steak. Steak is money. You can buy CP, you can buy storage or proof of storage, proof of CP there. All proof of cash.I define a second family of consensus mechanisms, which I call proof of human. And proof of touring is the permission of this one. In comparison to proof of bio-magic and proof of KIC,what happens is just imagine gamers playing a game or games. We through VRF verifiable random functions, we match the detectors in touring test with the validators, both our gamers. So in touring test, detector interrogator talks to two entities. Imagine like what's up or telegram. One is human and one is AI, if the interrogator or detector can detect human from AI, AI fails the test, meaning it can't fake human. So that's the whole idea.So the detector gamer. That is randomly match by the validator gamer, play games to dungeons together. They can battle, they can talk to each other if microphone’s open. If the detector decides that after a while, the other party is a human, he approves it so that the game play, they're gonna play together and feel the anti-civil part of consensus. It's a good example of, as I said, the new family of consensus mechanisms, which is proof of human, and it's very effective and efficient. And it doesn't cost anything, because the gamers’ game, anyway, so you don't need any extra energy, like improving work, you don't need money. So it's utilizing the already happening event and it's also a decentralization to the people in the network product, decentralizing to 1,000 people decentralized to, I don't know, 1 million, 10 million gamers out there as in a nutshell.That's who we are.
Michael(499Block): Great projects. We also want to give time to Michael, the core developer as seller network. Hello, Michael.
Michael(TEA): Hi, everyone.This is Michael from a Saturday network.I guess first a little bit thing about me, joined the space full-time back in 2018. Before there was a google as a software developer. For us, we are project are focusing on there to skate ability in cross chain interoperability, mainly on top of a serum and other EVM chains.And now we're expanding to more now EVM chains, including, said poker dog, the cosmos and So on. Now, in other 9 BM chains, our main product, as of now is called C-bridge, which is a cross chain asset transfer in general message inter-parity platform or bridge. As of today, I'm just a cat dashboard here. We have handled about 2.7 billion dollars in terms of a total transaction volume. And every day it's about like 40 to 50 million dollars every day, and it's still growing. I guess we're like one of least, the projects are like least connected to website directly. But actually, we think the multi-chain and cross-chain user experience is gonna be one of the most important factors in the coming year.And years later because we seem like modernistic block chains like a serum, they cannot meet the growing demand of users and, even and the newer and faster, I guess like more capable chains, like the chains with higher capacity like BSCA party guy. And they also like fading because the modernistic design just cannot meet the growing demand of users. You see, valid struggling with huge blocks and sometimes like whenever like, say, some like Game-5 projects are gathering like tens of thousands users and users world experience very slow. RPC turn-around time likes the gas fees will start increasing even now BSC and polygon and phantom like we've seen those in the recent months.So that's why we think like the multi chain and cross chain world is gonna be the norm in the coming year. And so basically, we have, besides the asset transfer from C bridge, we are also building this general information of inter-parity framework. So the goal is to say, like one day, the user can like that-- doesn't have to switch this from chains, from the hopping, from chains to A and B, from Adam mask. They can just send instructions from one of the chains. And then we handle the rest. We're building this multi-chain operating system for the web street world. And we're still gonna start and focus on the EVM ecosystem, but we're very rapidly expanding to other. Now, IBM systems like our multi chain are covered, not just the EVM chains, but also like you'll be able to interrupt from two small contracts, likes the say, one on the theorem. And the other, I'll say, likes a terror or Adam, that will also be possible in the coming year. Yeah. And besides that, we actually started not as a cross chain team, but we started with the research and implementation of layer two protocols.So back in 2018, we actually implemented the first general message, state channel network. Only theorem, so basically we’ve done demonstrated that you can play a game of global coup at internet speed on a theorem. So you don't have to like there's no gas fee, there's no like a block time. There's no waiting for any of the interactions. And it's all free and fast for instant for every single user. But unfortunately, like we didn't see state channel taking off at any time. We still don't see it taken off anytime soon, just because the application is a kind of restricted. So you can handle payments very well, it can handle head to head games. I look very well, but it's still limited because you cannot like moderate. That is to say, you need to up on top of it, or you cannot model a compound like or none of the device. It's very hard to vet them to the state channel model of limiting a group, limiting set of participants.That's why I didn't really take off. In 2019, when a roll-up came around that we thought it was very exciting. And it is still like very exciting because we see like optimism projects, like optimism and Arbitron and the ZK rops are also coming up. I guess the ZKBS(02:41:23-25) or coming the beta ones are coming this year. Anyway, like we saw like growing up, thriving back in 2019 and we brought this product there to dot finance, which is something like the Wifi or like the year of aggregator or but it's both on top of a custom build optimistic group or later two basically. You can interact with the five protocols on their one from there two at the fractional of the gas costs.The users don't have to pay a hefty theorem fees, but you just pay the better two fees and you can't like the deposit withdraw from compound and another like D-5 protocols.We have a kind of, like, a beta version running, but like we basically, we thought at the first, I guess, last, in 2020, we didn't expect like more teaching world yet. We thought like most of the liquidity and most of the EVM were still gonna be on a ceremony one. I guess there was a cause some like too pessimistic on our side. And we actually, instead of there, we saw like BSC and party gun Fenton like out on strike all the EVM chains coming up.And the critics are quickly migrating to all those, other like parallel guess, like a multivious,EVM that likes they're too financed to really take off, but we're still like very optimistic on that, because more pun intended because this is gonna be,this part of like multi-chain operating system, like multi-chain 5-D world, We envisioned.So you can have this like one a specialized rob chain that just handles. I could defy aggregating and user can just interact with that one chain and actually go to multiple chains like many different protocols and multiple chains, right? Because that the first version of that aggregate was just for a theorem, right? So it's still kind of expensive because the underlying protocol still has to talk to the company hobby and all those nicer. But once you swap that with like alternative chains, like PSC or like the other tools. So I said like garbage trump, then you can have even cheaper gas fee. And we believe that the user participation will be increased if we actually enable multi chain integration in the layer to finance products.So stating with that and it's gonna coming up, it's gonna come up with sometime this year. So that's pretty much about me in our project and record to be here to able to share some experience about actually decentralizing. The process of developing projects will start from like a centralized team to more of a adult format, more of like a community of adult operas. So I'm very happy to be able to share our experience.All right.
Panel 3
Michael (499Block): Alright.So we. So our guest just came out of the stage from 3Space. Could you give us an introduction about yourself?
YH CHO (CTO of 3Space): Hi.
Michael 499Block: We can hear you. It's your time to share.
YH CHO (CTO of 3Space): I will. Hi, this is Michael from 3Space. I think we have a different interpretation when it comes to development and working together, coming from the far east. Working culture here is different and has a great hierarchy. It is better than before. But the power of a leader, elderly and experienced, sometimes outweighs performance. It is the same when working together. The voice of the leader is crucial to co-working and finding roles and responsibility. Yep.
Michael (499Block): So our topic is that, is there a better development paradigm to realize a better concept of decentralized development?
YH CHO (CTO of 3Space): Yeah, in this regard, I think it's hard to find a common ground for decentralized development, even if we clearly define each role and require training, however, 3Space. And we wanna make or we have three more decentralized, but we are maybe the better way.
Michael (Celer Network): We will bring a new perspective on the topic of the talk today. The power of developers in a decentralized world.So I wanna talk about the separation of powers in politics, in governments, in real world’s governments, governing countries. We have this concept of separation of powers. The legislation power is limited to writing code in parliaments, for example. Then we have execution, the government's running the country, but obeying the legislation, the code developed via legislation, power, and nothing else. And then we have jurisdiction. The judging part, which is sort of regulating the other two parties, so each component has its own domain of power, limited to that domain only. But in a metasystem transition, there happens a balance of those powers running a country in a controlled manner.What we have this approach on the development concept as well. For example, we're developing a Game-5 project, which is a depth at the center. As I decentralized the application. We have the game development team, which has the power to develop the Game-5 project.including the smart contracts.and then publishing the smart contracts and running the game. That's the power limited to there. Then we have the main nets components, which is like a machine that runs the smart contract. It can't change the smart contract. It can't change the depth, but it can only run spot contracts that we have.For example, the gamers, the gaming community, they see the game, the platform it's on the smart contracts and everything, the features and everything. So they decide to play the game or hold the token FT teams and everything. So each of these three parties have their own power domain. The gamers can't change the game, or can't change how domain networks. So they are limited to their own power, but they also interact. So they provide feedback to each other. The game development team listens to the feedback coming from the gamers. The main net and the game net development, they can send each other proposals from their perspectives. So we have this limitation of authority and also this communication in separation of powers.But in a meta system level, This coherent balance brings beauty, the sustainable balance checks and balances things. So I think we should add this perspective in all aspects of decentralization, including the decentralized development processes. So one way is we can say the developers have too much power on what they develop. But if you look at it from the separation of powers perspective that power is limited and beautiful in that balance.But you can decentralize, distribute the process of development, maybe seemingly diffuse the power of a developer. But still, on a meta system level, we already have separation of powers, which is good. That's the perspective I wanted to add to the topic.
Kevin TEA: I don't feel there are things to add about the developers and making it easier for them to be more straightforward. If you look at right now, from the perspective of the developer you wanted to jump into, there's a lot of web three articles now being posted. It's really trending as a topic, web three decentralization.So many developers are gonna think to themselves--how do I get involved? They'll go and look at a block chain like a theorem and they'll say:“okay,I can't write the same code. I have to learn solidarity. I have to learn block chain concepts.” Okay? What about the server of their PHP, there's no smart contracts. Is our database later like my SQL. No, there's not. So it's very difficult for many developers to make the leap into web three.At the T project, we're trying to simplify that as much as possible. Now we have a three-tier architecture. We think developers can use their own programming languages that they're familiar with, whether it's Javascript or C+. They can just compile into web assembly. And once it's compiled into web assembly, then that wild assembly code can run in our minor nodes, kind of, it's similar to a darker type of concept. It's just the web assembly is a compiled binary and not just run on the server. And we do have SQL database available for them.I think the important thing for developers is to make it as kind of most, as most scene and most transition as possible, so that they don't have to learn all these new concepts and throw away everything they've learned from being developers, using their preferred programming languages.I think that's the best way to get adoption for web three for new developers.
Michael (Celer Network): And not only the programming languages, I know, for developers. It would be much easier for an experienced developer to learn new languages, but to learn a new concept, it's much harder for a traditional developer who used to work on the cloud computing area like mobile application by application. They are probably not very familiar with the concept of decentralized application. For example, solidity and not only a language, but also a way of thinking how you deal with the distribution.So that's why we try to make this stuff much easier for the traditional developer. You don't have to deal with this stage like the all new concepts, you just use as if you're using a single database, you can still use query. But there is no cycle at all. What we did is the distributed cycle in the embedded cycle server, which is running in a decentralized way. The server itself will be synchronized with each other. And the developer doesn't have to care about that. In that case, a regular developer can just use whatever they already know to build an application, but running fully decentralized. You don't have to deal with Amazon at all. So that is what we’re trying to get.
YH CHO (CTO of 3Space): I guess I'll share my 22 cents. So I think for most projects starting from a centralized team to more of a developer community. I think processes and methodologies are very important.So for example, I could review and should be, I guess, not necessarily formal, but the very essential step is like the code reviews. Actually, I used to work on it. One of the code review tools that android and chromium I used, I think they had a pretty good model like the biscuit you have, like used to better patch. And then like PR, you need to get a book,
it's called PR, so a patch and then it likes that everyone can comment on that and share their thoughts. But the area owner will have to give okay to that. So basically after like rounds of comments in changes, you can see how it evolves along with the good history. Right? Actually, we think it is ,technically, very similar to block chain. It's dependable. Only the chain of hash is right. So there's no proof of anything, but it's similar to the abrasion as today, right? But basically, you have this code review process where everyone can comment and share their thoughts, and then someone gives their approval and then the code is merger.So I've yet to seem like, I say like many projects out there. But it just seems like the process isn't that great in a decentralized setting, I guess, because it doesn't sometimes like the original, like a author didn't like document very well and sometimes like the author just likes to give brand eyes to new changes, and sometimes like bad things can just be like slipping, right? So. Yeah, and another thing, I guess, is in a Decentric setting, there should be some kind of incentive, like the code against the genders, right? That the people like preventing the code from rotting. Right? So it's very easy to have a code like rotting if it's not maintained. If it's like, you have a bad coaster opinion and if the review process isn't great and not. Sometimes, it doesn't because everyone prefers working on shipping new features instead of clean-up vote coders, I guess they need encounters. So I guess there should be like, if the project is evolving without a doubt, it should be like a more incentive for people who like to actually clean up the code or actually remove that code.That's my few thoughts.
Kevin: I'm wondering about the developers here in our channel, how many of you are trying to make applications running decentralized?And what is the most difficult part you are currently facing?
YH CHO (CTO of 3Space): Of course, we actually built on, the majority of our sea bridge is built on the Cosmos SDK which is already a very decentralized project we can contribute from, there's contribution for multiple teams. And there's no technical core team. I guess, actually, I think Cosmos has a pretty good model of area ownership. So like one team can, I guess, claim ownership for a while, or actually lead the development of one of the sub modules for each major release, right? And you kind of claim the ownership for a while, and you have to know the code very well, you have to pretty much approve all the under changes happening that recycle. Once the change is effective, there is a dislike formal governance process where all the (03:01:20) can vote if the changes are gonna be on, if the change is gonna be…… I guess it's the same as a pocket on a substrate world where it's even more formalized there. Because all the (03:01:34) rates have to be approved, have to go through the governance process, it's almost like a democratic, which is not necessarily needed, but it's like some good process to have, I guess. So I think like these kinds of models in web three, it will kind of slow things down a little bit, but I think it's better in the long term for a project to actually be developed in a decentralized manner, right? You don't have this like central party controlling like we're gonna release, and we seem like release the drama about like the (03:02:08) where like the develop person they have like too much power, and they can just do whatever they want, and people are turning a bright eye on them, and that's not a deal. So
Ersin Taskin (CTO of Heroes Chaind): I think we can present a good example to your question. We're originally a game studio, and then we added a block chain team to it. But I'm talking about playing to earn simple games, but real games. So real games need a lot of processing power, a lot of rendering, and everything also involved. But also, if you want to make your game block chain enabled like giving the gamers the right to own their game assets independently, trade them freely through NFT technologies, also tokens as your coin in the game are using block chain technologies. You need to convert your game to a block chain enabled game. If the game is a powerful game instead of having the whole game state on a block chain, you keep developing the game, the way you normally keep the game mechanics state on your data basis, which are from central, which might be distributed central systems. Then you take the value state on the block chain, meaning the game at the land, the heroes, the sword, and all these game items that have a value in the game mechanics are in the form of NFTs and the buying and selling of the stuff in the game. It uses a token which is implemented on a block chain. You only take the state regarding who owns how much of those tokens, also, the NFT ownership and everything on the block chain, so you limit the usage of block chain, only to where it is good at value states. And the rest you keep developing on where you own best and the game mechanics run best. So that's the approach we had. And that's the approach most game studios would have, probably, but I'm not talking about play to earn games. I'm talking about playing and earning games like game first for game 5, games or game 520 games. So that would be the general approach to make a great game block chain enabled.
George (TEA): Yeah, I totally agree, that is typical nowadays the Apps which is I usually call it hybrid mode, Hybrid mode means you, like the asset
As you just mentioned, the assets of a game are stored or traded in a block chain, but the other parts, like game servers, are still running in a traditional cloud computing environment. So that's why I call it a hybrid. That's pretty cool, actually, that exactly most of the (03:05:19) running today, we try to improve in another way, which is, it's fully decentralized. That means not only the assets running in a block chain, but also the service, the server, you host your application, your game server, is also decentralized. That means you don't, as a game developer, you don't have to rent a machine or a group of services to run the application, but the miners, they actually use their own machine or rent from a (03:05:54)to host your application. They do that because they can get a share of the game revenue or just get the payment by how much computing resources you need to host a game.So that is actually a new way to decentralize the cloud computing world. In that case, you don't have to rent your service. So some people may ask why not do that? What's wrong with the host (03:05:24) game on Amazon? I think there’s nothing wrong, just like making everything decentralized. Just like Uber, when Uber tried to decentralize the taxi company, they were asked why they wouldn't do that, what's wrong with the taxi company. But you see nowaday most people, at least in San Francisco, I haven't used taxi for many years, if you use Uber only.So that is actually the trend, what I think is the trend, especially not to mention the privacy like the security and also the censorship in US, like it was exactly (03:07:04) doesn't like you. (03:07:06) don't you, you probably will be removed from the social network, you disappeared. So that is why we trying to avoid, we really want every people can hold their own data and get the real freedom in the internet world that what we trying to get
M1: cool, well, in games, the trend you are describing is also there distributing the computational power and hardware resources for running at the distributed game cannot be limited only to Amazon servers, cloud servers that are run by the game studio.There's a trend there.But also one topic is on the physical part of processing, meaning should we distribute rendering of these games? Because these games use 3D models for the visual part of the game. And but at the end of the day, the user, the gamer experiences the visual rollout of the game. So gamers fight in a pvp mode, player versus player mode. We have this server system to client system at the end of the day, no matter what sort of system it's running. So you need to carry information between the central server that is running the world and to clients. So if I click a button, do some action, that action needs to go to the server side that is running the mechanics, the world.And the server should run the response and get after getting the two gamers responses, and how it will evolve and send them to the clients. So that's the traffic in a nutshell. So this traffic can be implemented in many ways. And on the client side, it has to be rendered sort of, so the new version of the images of the game should be seen on their screen. So we need to be able to use the client devices, hardware to the furthest extent, we need to also compute the game mechanics, how the world evolves on a sort of shared environment called the server network system, whatever you call it. And the whole process, especially the server side can be distributed, or you can call it decentralized, if you want to remove the district and also diffuse the authority part of that system. There are also works on distributed rendering, because rendering also takes a lot of effort and also distributed competition of game mechanics as well.
Michael (499Block): All right, thank you guys for being here, and thank you Erson for spending your precious time, sharing your thoughts in our community. And we will make a recap article and will publish it in our communities and social media as well. Anyone have additional things to share, and we are running out the time.
Michael(Celer Network): Now we're always welcoming developers.If you want to check out key project (03:24:04), and if you are developers, we do have a(03:24:10) to airdrop to you, so that will help you get up and running with our project. So, yeah, and thanks a lot for (03:24:17). I appreciate it in our project.
Michael (499Block): Thanks to you. We will have a more web three developer forum, Twitter space in 2022, and stay tuned, we’ll possibly see you again.
Code changing the world has evolved into "code is law" in the blockchain industry, and the importance of developers has been elevated to a new level, especially in such an industry construction period. Giving developers enough attention and support is the attitude we should have in the process of Web 3.0 construction.