On September 3, 2023, I attended the Jungle got Soul event in Chicago - hosted by the dnbid crew (DJās Stunna, Subverb, Renan, Skrimshaw and Occum's Razor):
Three sets in, I was impressed by the ambient sounds of DJ Toyacoyah. I looked her up online to learn more about her and saw that she was a member of the Comanche Nation - a rarity, so I decided to have an impromptu dialog with her at the bar where we dished on raves vs. pow-wows, West Coast DJ culture, Brazilian jungle/drum ān bass, indigenous hip-hop, Mixed-blood politics, Native representation, tribalism, (sound) medicine, colorism/racism, etc.
M: OK, letās start with your name. What does it mean?
T: It means āReturning from the Warā. Iām named after a great great grandma on my dadās side. Her name was actually spelled āToyackkoahā. So, story goes, back in times of war, the women would help the men and provide weapons and reinforcements if needed; so on her way back from helping refill ammunition and what not, my ancestor was born. I think it literally might mean āreturning from the mountainā because Iāve seen Toya used as a mountain name before.
M: Cool. So what does it mean to you to be a Comanche DJ in Chicagoās Jungle/Drum ān Bass (DnB) scene?
T: Yeah well, honestly, I didnāt grow up 100% around Comanche Nation just because, like, I was born there - born in the Indian hospital - but I only lived in Oklahoma until 7 years and then I moved off to Arizona, California; but I went back to Oklahoma for college.
So thatās kinda how I got back in touch with my roots ācause thereāsā¦a lot of Natives that go to college up at OU but yeah, no, I definitely see the parallels between pow-wow music and rave culture and stuff like that. People always ask me about that. Iām, like, ādefinitelyāā¦so yeah, I definitely see the appeal obviously ācause I watched my relatives dance - definitely percussion was heavy in the mix, right?
So no, who knows? There might be something in the DNA ācause I listened to house music, freestyle and all that stuff growing up; but the first time I heard jungle, I was like, āYo, what the hell is this?ā and I didnāt know what it was, right?
I went back later, Iām like, āthat was ragga jungle.ā Iām like, āthat was straight up, like, the craziest thing I ever heard in my life.ā I really wish I knew what song was playing, who the DJ was but it was like ā95 - San Francisco. Thatās where I first started and my life was pretty much changed after that.
M: You bring up an interesting point about the cultural or subcultural, at this point, parallels between the Jungle/DnB scene and the First Nations scene - raves versus pow-wows. I think every Junglist has that moment that they can identify where they were like, āWhoa, what is this?ā
T: Yeah.
M: āHow does this relate to me? Iām here, itās realā¦and, now, what am I gonna do?ā Obviously, you chose to DJ.
T: Yeah, so Iāve been buying records since I was a kid - like in the ā80ās. It was always, like hip-hop or, like I said, freestyle or hip-house or whatever; so I was interested in electronic music but, just, I didnāt know it was a DJ culture thing, right?
M: Right.
T: I listened to the radio a lot in California and theyād always have people mixing but I always felt it was more hip-hop; so I knew that culture - turntables and all of that, but I was like, āOh OK, thereās, like, a whole other thing happening here,ā right?
M: Right.
T: So, when I got to college, I started buying stuff and then I went to the radio program there; so then I had a radio show and thatās where I started playing a lot of drum ān bass. Thatās how I got my practice.
So funny enough the radio station at the time was KXOU but it was only on cable TV since they didnāt have a license or whatever. There was an NPR station I interned at, too, called KGOU.
But for the show I had on the cable TV part it was called āRecipe for Chaosā. I think I have an old VHS tape of one night somewhere (laughs). Dragged my 1200s and mixer into the studio for it.
M: Whatās the scene like down there in Oklahoma?
T: So, funny enough, thereās a really big scene and it was mainly a lot of hip-hop and rave crossover. One of the biggest crews that was throwing parties was the UAT crew and theyāre actually the ones that made me DJ.
The very first time I got a gig was because my friend was throwing a party and they put my name on a flyer and didnāt tell me until, like, a month before the party. He said, āby the way, youāre playing this and start practicing now. And I was like, āWTF, dude?ā but I needed that push because I would never do something like that - you know what I mean? - like on my own, so I appreciate that he did that for me and, yeah, that was my first gig - January ā98 - and no looking back since then.
M: Thatās whatās up. Do you feel like a lot of other First Nations people down there kind of had that same synergistic feeling or experience of, like, the rave culture integrated with the pow-wow?
T: Especially if they were into hip-hop culture. I donāt know as far as rave goes, but I definitely noticed it more recently. But thatās also because of the internet, you know - youāre a little more in tune with what other people are doing and I think it helps that people, like in Canada - First Nations - where, like, A Tribe Called Red (are from). They definitely helped solidifyā¦rally the troopsā¦
M: ā¦Yeah, right. Exactlyā¦around hip-hop. Rebel Diaz* is another one representing the First Nations down in Latin America. They have a show coming up at the Old Town School of Folk Music.
T: Oh yeah, I know Indigenous Peoplesā Day is coming up, so theyāre having a bigā¦what is it?...one-day concert. I remember they had something last year. I wanted to go to itā¦but, no, Iām really excited because, like I said, I feel like I see more hip-hop with Indigenous culture. Thereās, like, a big appeal there. But that kind of probably goes with social awareness and issues like that. Itās a way to express yourself, you know what I mean?
M: Yeah, totally.
T: So, I feel like thatās a big parallel culture with, like, bringing sh!t up.
M: Definitely.
T: But yeah, no, I actually just played in Minneapolis like two weeks ago (?)
M: Oh Nice! Largest Native urban population in the āUnited Statesā (Turtle Island).
T: Well, that was the thing, right? SoĀ I remember I saw on the event page, this girl was like, āWait, sheās indigenous like me? Iām totally coming out.ā And sheās like āRepresentation Matters.ā She was so excited. I didnāt know this girl, right? So, the day of the showā¦I didnāt see that post until the day ofā¦and I was like, āOh thatās so cute.ā And, so, she actually came up while I was DJāing. She put a sticker on the CDJs, and it wasā¦this medicine wheel sticker.
And I was like, āOh, is that the girl?ā And so I waited until after the show and talked to her and now weāre Facebook friends. But I was like, āI appreciate thatā because I didnāt really have too many Native friends in the scene. One of my best friends used to dance with me alot in Oklahoma but, you know, you go somewhere else and I'm usually the one person in the room, right?
M: Right. Exactly!
T: Like if I look around right now, Iām probably the only Native person...but I get used to that - whatever. So it was nice when you get to be with people, like, in a similar situationā¦
M:Ā Totally. 100%. Now I think, with that said, thereās also that unspoken presence as well, right? As a DJ, you talk about mixing genres and mixing records, but thereās also the mixed-blood, right? Those of us that, you know, have mixed-blood, but may not be enrolled, may not necessarily be accepted in the sovereign nations, so how do you speak to that? As a mixologist, how do you speak to that with respect to the mixed-blood people and how they express themselves whether in the underground culture or in the mainstream culture?
T: Yeah, no, itās definitely difficult. Itās a touchy situation becauseā¦thereās definitely colorism and whatever within indigenous cultures - (in) the Black community for sure. But, like - I donāt know - I think thereās something that you can get from all the cultures and all the different music. A shift sharing is a big part of our culture too. Like, someone comes into your home, youāre sharing food; so, as a DJ, youāre sharingā¦the music, the love - so I donāt know.
M: Itās something to put out there - something thatās maybe not discussed as often as it should be, but I think that the arts have always been a means to at least communicate the reality of such situations that ultimately bring that medicine that the tribes do talk about.
A lot of times, the more difficult conversations, the more difficult confrontations, the more difficult situations, both within and beyond First Nations communities, can bring about that medicine, right? Sometimes you have to break the bone and reset it correctly in order for it to grow in its proper nature.
T: Yeah, no, and I think that thereās alot of things that we can all learn from each other and that was the bad thing about what happened in this country when it was āfoundedā, right? People were already here, but weāre gonna say, in quotes, āfoundedā. If everyone had tried to get along, I think that things would be way better; but itās always āus against themā, āwho can you trustā, āblah blah blahāā¦
I prefer the places where you can have some acceptance because alot of times, with Native cultures, thereād be wars going on - whatever, but if someone was captured they were brought into the community, right? Like, āOK, youāre one of us now,ā back in the day, you know?
So I feel like thereās that whole, like you were saying, acceptance, tribalism - whatever, like āyouāre one of us now.ā Thatās kind of how it is in the dance music community, like āOh, you like drum ān bass? Youāre one of us now.ā Because, like, weāre few and far between, I feel like.
K: Totally, and speaking of medicine, for me personally, drum ān bass has always had somewhat of a healing impact and place, and effect in my life. Do you feel that drum ān bass has that capacity to heal some of those divisions or some of those wounds that exist within the First Nations community as well as beyond the First Nations community?
T: Oh yeah, for sure, I mean, thereās musical therapy, right? Like, thereās people that specialize in that stuff. So yeah, I feel like the more we share, the more we create, the more weāll have in common. You know? Thatās where we find our common ground, is on the dance floor.
K: Thatās cool. Do you see yourself, in the near future, maybe bringing the drum ān bass culture - sound - maybe into the pow-wow community or somehow, you know, bringing it a little bit closer?
T: It would be cool just because I feel like thereās not enoughā¦like youāll see - especially in the UK, right? - youāll see alot of record labels or song titles that borrow from tribes, but they still have that weird, stereotypical view of what that means ācause theyāre not around it.
Thatās fine, theyāre in the UK - whatever, but thereās this one kind of crazyā¦Iāve seen it before, Redskin Records is the name of it. Iāve seen it. The caricature is not very flattering. People have called them out on line but, right now, if you say something, like, āOh no, āwokeā is a bad word.ā Itās like, āno, youāre just trying to say this is not how you need to be talking about people, representing people''; but, of course, itās like people are still set in their ways, right?
So, things like that, I think thereās still a long ways to go. People just donāt know that sensitivity ācause theyāre not around it all the time, right? So, yeah, itād be cool to have more representation in the scene. Bring more people into it - whatever.
And, like, speaking of, like, indigenous cultures - Iāve never played for a crowd, right (?), thatās like mainly indigenous or like mainly even more than just me, right?
M: Right.
T: But someone reached out to me this past year - and I havenāt done it yet, but Iām actually gonna play for this Native American museum (Eiteljorg Museum) in Indianapolis.
Iāve never done anything like thisā¦but I was surprised because someone knew I was Comanche and theyāre like, āHey, weāre looking for an indigenous DJ and thereās one in Chicagoā, so Iām actually gonna go there in November to help with this exhibition, so itās gonna be, like, the first time Iāve played for something like that. Iām excited.
Iām gonna pick out different music, obviously, but still, you know, some good tribal music, world music. I feel like I could also expand it a little bit.
M: Yeah, definitely. No doubt, absolutely. I think the world music community, thereās a place for you in that community. I know they have their festival cominā up here soon. Thatās why I mentioned Rebel Diaz - theyāre part of that. Theyāre celebrating like 50 years of an uprising (coup) in Chile.
T: OK cool.
M: Yeah, I think that's an avenue that could definitely serve as a bridge between, you know, the First Nations community and the underground jungle/dnb community.
T: And also in that spectrum, too, I really love Brazilian music. When I was likeā¦you know, early 2000ās there was alot of Brazilian drum ān bass that came out. I was so inspired by it that I actually did study abroad in Brazil.
I used to DJ down there, but if you look at the USA and Brazil thereās alot of parallels of indigenous culture, settlers came in, slave trade was happening, and it was really interesting to see how the music - you know, kind of similar. Weāve got jazz, theyāve got bossa nova, you know. I was very interested to see, like, how those cultures came about because of what they went through.
M: Well the majority of the African captives, actually, were landed in Brazil and Colombia.
T: Yeah, Salvador was where I was and that was a big part of what I saw there.
M: Exactly, exactly. So too often, in the US, we think weāre the epicenter of that, but weāre far from it. Weāre a very small percentage.
T: Nope. Yeah. And thatās why I really wanted to go there - just to see how they treated their indigenous culture because it was definitely like they didnāt really talk about it. It was so weird. It was like, āOh weāre all Brazilianā and I was like, āNoooā, you know?
M: Yeah. I mean there was that immediate fusion of the African captives and the First Nations there and, for example, in Jamaica you have the Maroons. And in Canada you have the MƩtis and here, obviously, you have the Mixed-bloods here and all throughout the Americas, really.
So it is a quote unquote āPan-Americanā or Pan-Turtle Island diaspora that is both inclusive of indigenous and Afro-Indigenous communities, but also the integration of the two, which needs to be illuminated more; and I think, through music, we can heal some of those divides and get back to those roots.
T: And thatās my favorite part, just hearing what people do - that whole call and response with music. Itās like Iāll have this, Iāll have that - ooohh, let me put my little vocal element in there.ā Thatās f#cking bad@ss. I feel like that happens a lot. So, itās like we can relate more with music than, I feel like, in other different ways.
* Rebel Diaz brothers RodStarz and G1 grew up in Chicago and came up in The South Bronx, NY. They are the sons of political refugees from Chile who fled a CIA-funded dictatorship in the 1970s. They have been doing rebel rap since the Clinton era, sharing their story and those of their people; el barrio, the hood, the poor, los inmigrantes. The brothers' bilingual sound has been shaped by pieces of South American folk, house, and latin percussion gettin' down with boom-bap, breaks, and 808s.
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